Criminalize Greed, Not Graffiti

a'la: 10th Apr 2006 - 18:13 GMT

"Draconian" indeed. Geezuz! I thought NYC was supposed to be a liberal haven for the arts? Not to mention, the birthplace of graffiti. Wow.

colavito's ghost: 10th Apr 2006 - 21:40 GMT

Peter, just curious if you'd be willing to tell us what your punishment your "acquaintance" received for his/her heroism.

Last year I got nabbed by an undercover graffiti cop for putting up paste-ups on the lower east side. I was lucky enough to get away with a warning, but he took my name, address, and ssn and told me "next time I'll be putting you in cuffs" (OOOOHHHHHH!!!). I've continued to go out at night (in Harlem and Brooklyn), but have avoided hotspots like the village because I feel like they must have guys waiting to arrest me on every corner. Maybe some day I'll get the courage back up to do some work in downtown Manhattan once again....

Peter: 11th Apr 2006 - 01:27 GMT

i'll most certainly tell! i just need a little time to rest up from this BS and get a proper story written up (that will do it proper justice).

the punishment: a desk warrant to reappear in court for sentencing in june... probably (according to the lawyer) some community service (it was the party-in-question's first offense on a clean record) or a fine, or removal. we shall see, and i will keep you posted.

for the record, the party in question was not me, but was someone that has contributed alot to this site, as a regular participant.

Elicar: 11th Apr 2006 - 01:47 GMT

Holy Carapolla Peter! This really got you going. I really did not read your write up when I first saw this post. Here I was, admiring your "class" in dealing with Irish Mike/Mike in Fuck England even though he was personally attacking you! I don't know if I myself would have reacted with such grace.

But I could understand your anger. Forty hours for a graffiti offense? What did your friend deface? Bloomberg's mansion?

SCAM28: 11th Apr 2006 - 09:39 GMT

God damn it...every time I read something like that I get so pissed...and there's nothing you can really do about it...
See I'm from Berlin, Germany and there's massive graf in this town...so as another measure to turn graf artists into criminals they've changed the law regarding tags done with the new hard to buff ink from vandalism to releasing dangerous chemicals to the public!! It's insane! You can now get a higher penalty for tagging than for Bank-Robbery!! WTF is the deal with that....
Anyway...we've decided to answer hatred with hatred and are dowsing this fucking town in chrome!!
Greetings to the Graffiti in Berlin Police Squad!
We wish every one of you bastards an untimely death!
-The 28er Gang

GGP: 11th Apr 2006 - 14:21 GMT

wouldn't it be great to live in a world where greed was truly taboo and colorful expression on walls was honored? you may say i'm a dreamer, etc. etc.

Jamie: 15th Apr 2006 - 13:39 GMT

dude i feel bad for your "acquaintance". that really sucks

Catherine Penfold-Waxman: 15th Apr 2006 - 14:02 GMT

Peter, if you want me in court glaring at the Judge, just tell me where and when. We can make some citynoise outside the courthouse. Let's do it.

EvilGentleman: 19th Apr 2006 - 10:35 GMT

To my way of thinking, graffiti should be both encouraged and it's location controlled within reason, with penalties for those who put graffiti in places where it has no business being. Now, before you all start tuning me out, graf fans that you are, let me explain.

Yesterday, after I was done with a trip to the dentist downtown, I went for a walk under the Ville Marie Expressway, which is the main highway bringing traffic to Montreal's downtown core. I took over 100 pictures under there of quite interesting graffiti, most of it done on the concrete supports for the highway and the various on and off ramps associated with it. I very much enjoyed my little journey under the highway. Most of the work is visible from the streets or commuter rail tracks on either side of the highway, but some of it is visible only if you climb around the area the same way the artists did. I found new respect for the amount of work involved in creating graffiti, and I wondered how much the average graffiti artist must spend on paint in a year. Every single piece I saw, I appreciated. As I walked back to my starting point, I noticed a detailed piece done on the little climate-control room sitting atop a low-rise brick building. This piece is highly visible from the highway, as well as a number of major downtown streets. This piece too, I appreciated. These are examples of graffiti in places that would otherwise be barren, but instead have been converted into art galleries of a sort.

Now let me explain why I think graffiti should be controlled, to a certain extent. Today, I was passing through an area of downtown that was quite close to where I went for a walk yesterday, but in a car at rush hour this time. I was stopped at a red light, and I suddenly noticed a large tag from zonek, one of the artists whose work I was photographing yesterday. But this tag was on a 200 year old stone wall attached to an old convent that is now a historic site. It was the only thing marring an otherwise perfectly preserved wall of old stone on a block that is dedicated to the preservation of history. To remove the tag will prove to be a major problem, due to the age of the stone. The light turned green moments after I stopped, so I had no chance to take a picture, but I am definitely going to take a pic of this piece and post it in this thread. It really made me understand how some people consider graffiti artists to be mere vandals and criminals. One idiot is able to give graffiti a bad name, even though most graffiti artists are quite decent about where they work.

So here is my idea:
Graffiti should be legalized, but within reason. Highway columns and other urban eyesores benefit greatly from graffiti, and this should be encouraged. The only pieces that should be buffed from such areas are ones that contain obscene words or graphics, since children see graffiti, too. The rest should be allowed to stay. Public parks should each have designated graffiti walls. Historic structures, cultural institutions, churches, storefronts and private residences should be declared graffiti-free, unless the owner specifically permits it. The back alley side of businesses should be graffiti-friendly, unless it insults the business. For example, if someone puts up an elaborate tag on the back wall of a Wal-Mart, that should be considered ok. But if someone paints Wal-Mart Sucks! on the same wall, Wal-Mart should be allowed to remove it. Other locations should be lightly protected, such as unused industrial sites. Obviously, such a place is an eyesore, and graffiti would greatly enhance its appearance. Problem is, it is still private property. The obvious solution would be to impose fines of differing values for different areas. The minimum fine should be quite low, perhaps about the same as for jaywalking or letting you parking meter expire. This minimum fine should be applied for minor things such as tagging an abandoned factory or a commercial fence. Maximum penalties should be imposed on those who deface historic sites or private homes. In this way, maybe graffiti can be recognized for the art it is, while still preserving the individual rights of property owners.

EvilGentleman: 19th Apr 2006 - 20:45 GMT

This is the poorly located tag I was mentioning above

EvilGentleman: 20th Apr 2006 - 15:32 GMT

Editors, a question, if you please - I want to post a thread, or set of threads with the graf pics I took in the last week, but even after editing, I still have well over 100 pics. You guys know better than I the limitations of the website in regards to the servers being able to handle large pages full of graphics. What is the preferred maximum size of a thread, so as to not cause problems? I will break the thread down into as many subdivisions as needed so as to keep citynoise running smoothly.

Editor:: 20th Apr 2006 - 15:38 GMT

I'd say, post a few photos in each entry (6-10 if you like) and spread the entries out over a few weeks, perhaps giving them similar titles, so as to form a series (see the graf trux entries here: www.citynoise.org/search/graf_trux)

this will keep the bandiwdth concerns to a minimum (not too many images in a single entry) and will give you the opportunity to create an ongoing series on a topic that most of our readers here really enjoy :)

that said, cant wait to see them!

EvilGentleman: 20th Apr 2006 - 15:57 GMT

Thanks. I will start posting immediately, once I am done resizing. As long as it is not a problem, I will try to put all the images from my last walk (in multiple threads) on today, as I have hundreds of other images backlogged from other graffiti walks I have taken in the last couple of months. Let me know if I get carried away, but I will try to get my rate of posting more in line with my rate of picture-taking (and yes, I do weed out most of the bad shots). Thank God for digital cameras with rechargeable batteries. If I had to pay for film and developing, whoa! I would be spending over 100 bucks a day.

Editor:: 20th Apr 2006 - 16:06 GMT

If possible, making sure the photo-dimensions are around 500px (as an absolute maximum- for both width or height) is also a good way to facilitate photo-heavy posting without slowing the site too much :)

EvilGentleman: 20th Apr 2006 - 16:10 GMT

Um, I was thinking 640 x 480, but no more than 10 pics to a thread. I'm using MS Picture Manager to resize, and it has an automatic setting for that size available. Is that acceptable?

EvilGentleman: 20th Apr 2006 - 16:14 GMT

Sorry for mucking up your thread, Peter. Hmmm, maybe a citynoise Q&A thread is needed....

Editor:: 20th Apr 2006 - 16:44 GMT

640 is a tad large, especially for graf... as in the photo you psoted above in the comments, so much of it is just wall... with the key graf in the middle. if you might crop them, or perhaps see if theres an option for a tad smaller resizing size, that would be great. if not, do what you have to do, but economizing on a batch of a hundred photos can really add up after the entries get viewed a few hundred times ;)

Editor: 21st Apr 2006 - 09:29 GMT

Other thing to note that images over 600 pixels tend to push the site layout off the visible screen for people running lower screen resolutions. Also a good way of linking a series of posts is using tags. Instead of (or as well as) tagging them say graffiti or montreal tag them with something super specific such as montreal graf walks 2006 or whatever and they'll all group together on one neatly titled tag page

ninety9lives: 30th Apr 2006 - 02:26 GMT

i'm all for graffiti and street art. not one line ugly tags. but thoughtful social commentary in stencils, or pieces, murals. layering colours and styles. yeah.

PHLASH: 15th May 2006 - 23:59 GMT

Word up ya'll... lets get one thing clear... urban art will never go away! but only the cream will stand the toll of times check my stuff out here : http://www.thaphlash.com
peace to all!

EvilGentleman: 24th May 2006 - 17:42 GMT

This is what I was afraid of. I took this yesterday. It seems once one tagger makes his mark on something, no matter whether it is historic or not, the other taggers have to compete. Now the wall is ruined. These guys give graffiti a bad name.

JAONE XTC: 21st Aug 2006 - 01:40 GMT

its called bombing.........dont worry the wall will live.

misterVee: 2nd Sep 2006 - 22:49 GMT

if its the real JA, i wana ask, do u still go bombing? and wat borough are u living in? do u still live in manhattan?

Lurv1: 3rd Sep 2006 - 04:41 GMT

I like Graffiti. I,ve photographed it in different alley ways throughout the city. But when it starts showing up on historical buildiings I thinks that's wrong.Many of these architectural landmarks could be considered art in their own right.What makes the graffiti artist art more worthy ? And who decided empty spaces aren't interesting.

Guy McLaren: 28th Nov 2006 - 08:27 GMT

I can go with that, Graffitti is vandalism, no matter how you look at it. I find someone bombing my property and I'll bomb his fucking head. Court? no way more like an extended stay in a ward somewhere.

JOEY THE PUBLIC ANIMALS: 29th Nov 2007 - 09:39 GMT

Graffiti.. a part of life, love it or hate it...some sucks, some is great...right place, wrong place...values change.