Motorist Vs Courier

JayMTL: 27th Jan 2006 - 02:10 GMT

Just to add another dimension - the thing I miss the least about being a courier is the road rage. Having people swerve at you in their cars sucks - but what sucks even worse is all the times people threaten your life just by not paying attention or by looking right through you - cutting lanes quickly while talking on their phone, not checking their blindspots, throwing open their doors while choking down a burger, whatever. I got pissed all the time because some idiot just made me dive to dodge their ass - and they don't even know what they did. What can you do? You're busting your hump all day to earn a decent paycheque - you don't have the liberty of stopping to sort people out. Most people you say something to will get uppity if you get in their face, even if they are wrong, and retaliating against cars DOES inspire instant road rage in most people, especially males. As a courier, you're kinda fucked all day long that way. So I can totally see that trash coming out the window as just being that one "fuck-you" too much for that particular courier. You learn to mellow out and expect every single person on the road to get in your way or try to kill you, but the essence of the situation remains... Nope, don't miss that at all!

So ya, the fight didn't prove anything, didn't change anything, but I betcha that courier felt good about getting some frustration out :) She'll be the talk of the courier bar I'm sure. And not letting Captain Aneurism there get his way is good in a karmic way I like to think.

I propose a petition to force all cyclist-directed road-ragers to ride a bike for 6 months. All in favour...

Jay

machry: 27th Jan 2006 - 02:14 GMT

mr. flagg: I think she's the animal's (ex?) girlfriend...

actually... check out that ROCK!!! she married the animal!

machry: 27th Jan 2006 - 02:16 GMT

I would hope it was like the scene out of Anchorman w/ Jack Black....

i.e. the tossing of garbage out the window caused a wipeout on the bike.

That's the only way I can see it justified.

endlessxmike: 27th Jan 2006 - 02:16 GMT

What would you do if someone dumped coffee on you? getting assaulted definitly justifies damageing property and damaging property does NOT justify that asshole assaulting her. what SHOULD you do if someone messes with you? get 3rd degree coffee burns and cry about it?

bottom line, damage property and if they get out of the car with a baseball bat damage their face with your U Lock.

kevin: 27th Jan 2006 - 02:26 GMT

as a bicycle commuter myself and someone who has had their share of run-ins with moron drivers i say the cyclist probably has enough pent up anger against just about anyone in a car to justify what she did in her mind. its a war out there on the streets sometimes and if a cyclist loses... well they tend to eat it a little harder than even the weakest cars will.

jethro: 27th Jan 2006 - 02:44 GMT

they couldn't have picked a better spot for fighting. the background colors look like an army surplus store.

Mike: 27th Jan 2006 - 03:00 GMT

I've picked up litter and chased people down to give it to them. Granted, I didn't toss it through their open window. But still: fuck cars.

Cherri: 27th Jan 2006 - 03:54 GMT

Whoever said that yelling at him would have taught him a better lesson than giving him back his garbage obviously doesn't ride a bike in the city. Even when people almost hit you with their car and you yell at them they are more than willing to scream back at you or try to start something. Just telling him she "didn't appreciate his littering" probably would have still set him off to some degree.

Sam: 27th Jan 2006 - 04:07 GMT

Shyzer I can think of an example; A fellow was beaten to death, tortured 3 hours, burned and raped, sodomized with a stick and stomped on so hard a boot print was left in his face.

He had laughed at an acquaintance because of the way the acquaintance vomited after accidentally inhaling a drink and choking which provoked vomiting.

That's off the top of my head, there are a million examples and probability sez if you look you will find one where littering was the provacation.

Gonna, can't stop me.: 27th Jan 2006 - 04:28 GMT

This guy doesn't pay the dues for flippin out I gaurantee his wife will force him into an anger management program.....she'll have too when his pic (and hers) with his name is plastered all over the GTA.

I've got my own all set up, but for fun

How About A Caption Contest?

Pic 14 is the official screw the violent guy pic, captions anyone?

hool: 27th Jan 2006 - 05:15 GMT

to the previous commenter: please do not print these images and "plaster them all over the GTA". no, i cannot stop you, but i can sincerely request that you do not do so. this would be a further escalation of this situation, which is not warranted. feel free to discuss your thoughts here, make some captions, but please do not print these photographs (with or without names) and post them around toronto, the only thing it could do is cause further violence.

Peter: 27th Jan 2006 - 05:47 GMT

im with hool. be wise. respect. comment here. keep it here.

these were posted with good faith to a select audience. this entry has blown up with tons of publicity, and been viewed by a wider audience than expected.

hool: 27th Jan 2006 - 06:06 GMT

peter: thanks for the support. i don't publish anything in internet space with intent toward a select audience. i know very well that once something is put online, it's out of my control, so the narrowness or wideness of the audience is beside the point.

my point is that going to the trouble of printing pictures along with names and then postering them throughout the city is clearly an act of provocation, *not* dissemination. this event is over - it should be discussed, yes, but not further escalated.

adam: 27th Jan 2006 - 07:14 GMT

peter.. how wide of an audience? i can only imagine the amount of hits this thread has gotten

UsVSthem: 27th Jan 2006 - 07:29 GMT

Throwing your garbage on the streets is assault on us all.

Fuck that guy, fuck the interior of his car, fuck his paint job! He could have easily thrown his garbage in the back of his SUV. Back in that huge expanse of wasted space. He should fear throwng garbage on the street, for he ends up with an asswhoopin!

And fuck motorists! Its us versus them. They are never going to except us as bikers anyway, so why should we except them?

Can't wait till we run out of oil. Then fuckers like that will have to give up their SUV's.

Dear Shyzer: 27th Jan 2006 - 07:51 GMT

"I'm asking for one example. A specific example, not generalizations. I refuse to believe that there's a trend or people simply killing perfect strangers for looking at them the wrong way. It's simply an urban myth."

People commit random acts of violence for no reason at all, all the time. Last week someone was stabbed with a screwdriver in the back, no theft, no argument, just stabbed. Recently, someone assaulted a man while a friend video taped it. Random act, no reason.

He never said there was a trend, only that "people have killed for less" - which is true. No reason at all is less a provocation than littering.

Jeremy: 27th Jan 2006 - 07:53 GMT

I like how the bikers say "fuck him, fuck his car" and "she's right, he shouldn't stomp her bike".

So her property should be respected, while his is fair game.

Someone else already summed it up - they're both fucking idiots for escalating this well beyond reason. He shouldn't have dumped coffee on her and she shouldn't have keyed his car. It's not bikes vs. cars here, it's common sense vs. rage and they're both on the wrong side of that equation. End of story.

mnbiker: 27th Jan 2006 - 09:15 GMT

hey this made it's way on to our biking forum in MN.
as i posted in that forum.

when you think about it traffic had to be moving slow that day.
wait for some one to drop something out of a car window.
bike over stop pick it up.
find the car and get close to them.

that would take some time, you would think if you could do all of that you could ride away turn down a one way or bolt and the person would not get you. did she want to piss the guy off. it really seems like if she had that much time to do the above she would have had time to bike away. yet she was that close that he could get her with coffee. then she stuck around to key his car, she did not take off she then stuck around to wait for him to get her off the bike.

seems to me she could have been 2 blocks away at least i would have been.

Jamie: 27th Jan 2006 - 10:44 GMT

adam: well at the time of writing this, this page says it has been viewed 4099 times, and it's also jumped to the top of this months list of most popular articles. nice one hool.

toronto cyclist: 27th Jan 2006 - 13:06 GMT

your all basing it on assumptions of 'accurate' inforamtion, which Hool admits himself he didn't see how it all started. he just heard second hand that she picked up the garbage and threw it back in the car. It's quite possible when driver tossed it out his window in the first place that it hit her in the face or landed right in her lap.
That would mean the difference for me, if the guy tossed garbage and it missed my head by an inch... I'd be pissed and probably yell, but that's it. But if it directly hit me in the face I'm sure I'd be pushed to the point of retalliation.

Cheesy_Member: 27th Jan 2006 - 14:15 GMT

Getting his car keyed kinda serves him (the driver) right for littering. I bet he'll think twice about that from now on. Or maybe not. Maybe he'll carry a gun instead of a bat next time. What is our city becoming?

This is so so wrong, no one desrves to have their car keyed for littering. Paint Job costs £1000's picking up litter costs nothing.
To be honest is miss goody two shoes dislikes littering so much she should have taken his plate and reported him. Doing anymore than this and she deserves everything she got!!!

steelisreal: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:04 GMT

I think we have 2 types of people that are coming here and looking at this from different angles.

1. the people that believe cyclists and especially couriers are always right in these type of things. these people will defend couriers to the last days over the right to defend themselves or what not.

2. and now for the others, the ones that can find fault in the courier and in the man and think both should be charged.

i personally like the courier, being a bike punk myself.... i think she did nothing wrong. I also advocate peeing on suv door handles and stickering them with anti-suv slogans.... just my mentality i guess.

JayEastsider: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:11 GMT

Where is that Hool in Kensington Market?

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:16 GMT

the guy is a turd for throwing garbage on the street, BUT he didn't throw the garbage at her, so why the hell did she go out of her way to pick up the garbage and throw it at him. everyone seems to be on the cyclist side but it looks to me like she assaulted him first.

I'm all for smashing, keying, breaking mirrors, windshields etc....... but only when a motorist tries to kill or hurt me first.
I was a messenger in Toronto and i've had motorists spit at me, side swipe me, and try to run me off the road in busses, now thats a reason to be pissed.
I see someone throwing garbage, hey your a jerk this a clean city we don't appreciate that. but i'm not gonna risk getting into a fight over it.

broken: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:18 GMT

Of course she did something wrong, throwing food back in his car is just as wrong as him throwing it out, it's just as much assault as throwing coffee ( ie, throwing anything at someone is assault regardless of temperature ) they're both at fault here, he shouldn't have littered, she could've thrown the food out and taken his plate down if she cared that much about littering instead of starting a confrontation, I don't think anyone here would take something thrown at or in their car lightly ( regardless of whether it's deserved or not ).

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:21 GMT

exactly, and for the guy that says all cyclist would be on the cyclist side and all non-cyclist would be on the motorists side, your wrong. i'm a cyclist and i see who's right and who's wrong.

Peter: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:30 GMT

i love that our toronto contingent can tell that this is kensington, just based on the few, detailed photos. cool.

John: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:44 GMT

There seem to be a lot of people arguing about who messed up more. Just to weigh in, it was obviously the driver, but this isn't the point. Both sides clearly made some decisions which were ultimately detrimental to their safety but this is not the point either. While this motorist was armed with a baseball bat, here in DC that could easily have been a 9mm. Hool said it all "a food fight should not escalate to skull cracking nor murder." There are a lot of assholes out there and you're never gonna change that. While it may not seem as gratifying at the time, the sweetest revenge is to blow by them at the next red light. Standing up for yourself means self preservation too.

Adam in Mpls: 27th Jan 2006 - 15:57 GMT

I dunno man... he threw his shit out into her space, and she just returned it back to his space.

When you're in a situation like that, what are you gonna do? Report littering to the police? Yeah, they'll get right on that. Report having coffee spilled on you to the police? Same thing, plus he'll just point out how you threw his garbage back at him, and cops are always sympathetic to drivers. You can't go after the guy himself because he's ensconced in steel, so a minor scratch is the only way to really get his attention. I guarantee that cost less to repair than the damage to her bike.

But I still don't get why she stuck around. It looks like he went all the way around the back of his minivan to come after her. An experienced messenger like that could've been blocks away. She was obviously not done with this punk.

Still, I'd say that the worst thing to come out of it was going after the photographer with a baseball bat. Hope he serves jail time for that one.

I wonder how it all played out in the end.

Fritz: 27th Jan 2006 - 16:07 GMT

I don't get it. How do you know the guy is a motorist and not a pedestrian? You ever see that episode of STar Trek TNG, where the Romulans are on board, but kinda frozen in time? Everything looks like an invasion, but then it turned out the Romulans were actually helping our guys - cause the frozen images were misleading. Anyways, just based on the pictures, the guy is a crazy fuck, and the Ms. Tour de france is a butt licker.

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 16:09 GMT

nobody mentioned the garbage being thrown AT her space. If this is the case then yeah by all means throw the garbage back at him. but the way i heard the story i sounded like she provokes the whole situation.

J. Cash: 27th Jan 2006 - 16:12 GMT

I shot a man in Reno; just to watch him die.

Also, litter bugs are asshats that WASTE my Tax dollars, directly hurt the value of my property, create health hazards, and are, as a rule, self-centered, inconsiderate sub-humans that should have been raised better. The fact that this guy was driving an SUV makes the offense exponentially worse.

simonpeter: 27th Jan 2006 - 16:23 GMT

hey pete im from belfast in ireland and i knew it was kensinton market,lol i have to say i was pretty chuffed myself,cheers

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 16:26 GMT

A message to Canadian messengers:
recent immigrants from eastern european countries don't take getting garbage thrown at them lightly.

burnasuv: 27th Jan 2006 - 16:31 GMT

So we don't know the whole story, but if you drive an SUV, especially in an urban enviroment, probability is you are an asshole. Thats not speculation. I mean, there has to be a statistic somewhere to back this up.

Us vs them. thats right. Torch an SUV today (just make sure you can get away).

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 17:00 GMT

i didn't notice she was riding a fix, so the virus has spread to my brothers in the north as well? DAMN!

lucky palindrome : 27th Jan 2006 - 17:07 GMT

He is lucky he didn't get a u-lock to his jaw. Idiot.

hool: 27th Jan 2006 - 17:14 GMT

it's interesting to me that everyone assumes the driver was driving an SUV. that was not the case. it was a small four door.

to further clarify - although i did not see what instigated the event, i was told word for word by the officer at the scene, and he got both sides of the story from the courier and the motorist, which i was told were essentially identical.

thisishowiride: 27th Jan 2006 - 17:52 GMT

Dang, that's messed up. That guy has some issues, and I hope he's caught.

John: 27th Jan 2006 - 17:53 GMT

I think the reason people assume that is that there is an SUV (or maybe a minivan) in the pictures. And what's with the censorship? That was a joke, sorry if you didn't get it.

Jannx: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:10 GMT

Lets see the time line here…

• Male throws trash out of his car onto the city street instead of a trash receptacle. Litter by law violation .. not too serious but do it on his front yard and he’d be….
• Female picks up Males trash and tosses it back into Male’s vehicle, nothing happening here regarding violations
• Male throws hot coffee on female, definitely a violation with lots of precedents to back up the assault. .. no contest. Female has a bill now for cleaning her clothes.

Score Male 2; Female 0

• Female keys Male vehicle, definitely a violation ; vandalism bill to Male unless he is able to go and get a conviction in small claims court for payment for a new paint job or make an insurance claim.
• Male assaults female, definitely a violation and now we are in ‘serious territory’
• Male trashes female bicycle, violation , vandalism, she can go after him in small claims court for a conviction. (note the car will run with a scratch so earning a living with the car is not an issue for the Male. The female uses a bicycle for earning a living as a low paid courier, net effect she is now disadvantaged for earning her livelihood.

Score Male 4; Female 1

• Male goes to trunk and hauls out a bat to assault the photographer
• Photographer skedaddles

Score Male 1; Photog 0

Final tally Male 5; Cumulative others 1

Defending the Male because he is being attacked by others in this thread is a case in bailing a leaking boat. Good luck, I don’t want any of you in my family gene pool. The guy is a thug. The female has more guts than most of the readers here. Shes okay, I’ll buy her a coffee anytime.

JP: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:14 GMT

I knew there was a reason I didn't want to live in Toronto, with pigs like him around it's no surprise the "cleanest" city in North America is looking a bit haggard. Good for her for standing up to the jerk.

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:19 GMT

"• Male throws trash out of his car onto the city street instead of a trash receptacle. Litter by law violation .. not too serious but do it on his front yard and he’d be…."
so what is she the local litter police?

"• Female picks up Males trash and tosses it back into Male’s vehicle, nothing happening here regarding violations"
throwing trash at someone is assault.
first personal attack: female 1; male 0.

Buffalo: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:23 GMT

You guys have real VIOLENCE up there? It always looks so nice. Well, at least no one got shot.

You guys are becoming more and mroe like us everyday, eh? :-)

Peter: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:48 GMT

www.metafilter.com/mefi/48623

sho fizzle: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:48 GMT

What's wrong with horking a great big green loogey on his windscreen?

It doesn't hurt anyone (unless you've got TB), it doesn't permanently damage property, and it appropriately expresses a biker's disagreement with a situation.

Loogeys are the answer, I firmly believe. In Canada, they freeze to the windscreen so the guy would have to pick it off with his fingernail. Just adds to the impact of the protest, I think. In the summer, they dry to a beautiful shine within minutes, again necessitating the fingernail approach for removal.

Instead of keying a vehicle or U-Locking someone's face, just hork on his car! In the end, everyone is happier. And your get-away will be easier since you won't have nasal obstruction with excess snot.

If your bike is being jacked, make sure you hork on the wheel too, so buddy would get a sticky, salty reminder not to grab your bike so quickly again.

To do this most effectively, you need to learn how to hork efficiently, because the effect is not the same if you end up with drool hanging down your lip and getting on your pants (like my wife does when she tries to hork - she's beautiful, but really needs to work on her spitting technique).

The loogey should remain in a tight wad during flight, spreading artfully accross the windscreen upon impact. I would give bonus points for a multicoloured loogey. Streaks of blood make a real statement.

I say, everyone should practise horking on cars on the ride home tonight. It is cathartic and decongesting simultaneously.

Everyone with me?

pegcity: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:53 GMT

was a courier for 18 yrs,started angry and confrontational,ended with zen like move through it all and pay it no mind style,unless no other option.
car guy is over the top.courier girl is gonna be on the road ,and visible as long as she rides,i hope she'll be safe. avoid confrontation is better imo to remain safe. as the yanks point out,guns are widespread and people will use them.cars are lethal weapons too. littering is wrong ,i admire the girl for her action,but is it really worth the potential outcome? was she really done for the day,or out of trips for that period of time? guy should be lobotomized,girl needs to take a vacation

innocent bystander: 27th Jan 2006 - 18:56 GMT

burnasuv: oh for the love of pete, what the hell kind of logic is that? is burning an SUV helping your environment? paint, gas, oil, plastic and rubber all send noxious toxins into the environment when burned. or is this selfish, short sighted 'logic' just a way for you to feel better about condoning antisocial harm? i hate SUVs too, and i still think you're a tool...a tool of the culture you rail against. destruction is destruction regardless of politics. next...

Roy: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:02 GMT

I've had a similar situation, with similar results (except that no women were involved).

I clipped a mirror on accident with handlebars, mirror got folded in but undamaged. I wasn't quite aware that I did this.

Motorist charges at me with car, I barely avoid being hit by jumping curb onto sidewalk

Motorist jumps out of car, runs towards me, grabs me and throws me off bike.

I get up, take two steps back, call 911. he stops and backs off.

The police when they came there, talked to him, etc etc, told me that he had every right to try and "detain me" because I had "damaged his property".

in this state you are allowed to defend your property, and those fleeing prosecution after damaging it, using "any appropriate physical force".

hostile: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:19 GMT

Ah Kensington, I knew ye well. He's a fuckwad for throwing shit out his window and hitting a girl, she's a bitch for throwing it back and keying his car. Now that's the Toronto I know! Make no mistake, couriers can be complete cocksuckers too. Their sense of superiority and entitlement only takes a backseat to motorists. Toronto's like a haven for fucking retards with shit attitudes.

Anonymous coward: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:31 GMT

I have some sympathy for the messenger but not much. She made the first move. Yes, the guy's reaction is waaay over the top but, we're I judging this legally, I'd come down on the side of the motorist.

kerry: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:37 GMT

Agression begets agression. It could have ended much worse.

d: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:43 GMT

im just glad no one got seriously hurt.

hool: was her bike damaged? do you have more photos of this situation?

Clay: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:45 GMT

Do we know who this chick is?
I second that...

p3rp: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:50 GMT

i dont know whos to blame as far as the drama goes, but i *do* know that this guy has some yellow-ass teeth.....

whatever : 27th Jan 2006 - 19:51 GMT

if you get a license to drive it does not entitle you to throw food and that cguy blows chunks

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 19:53 GMT

[Toronto's like a haven for fucking retards with shit attitudes.]
amen to that!
goes for both of them.

anon (MTL-ppp-156754.qc.sympatico.ca): 27th Jan 2006 - 19:55 GMT

I think maybe the 2nd chick is the drivers girlfriend??

ViewFromAfar: 27th Jan 2006 - 20:08 GMT

My Observations:
Photo #1: he is grabbing her seat to slow her down, she must have been riding. Id say he then grabbed her wheel to stop her.
Photo #2: he seems to be winding up to kick her.
Photo #3: she has an arm raised to defender herself or perhaps to catch her balance after he is knocking her over.
Photo #4: he has started grappling with her and attempting to knock her from her bike.
Photo #5: she seems hurt and her other leg is trapped under the bike which he is in the process of stomping.
Photo 6+: she starts to defend herself and others step in to break up the scuffle.

it seems to me that many people are assuming alot about this situation, the only people that know what happened are the two involved. Since people have mentioned knowing the cyclist why not get her to post her side of the story? and with the number of pageviews maybe someone could find the male and get him to post his side. then we could really talk about the situation.

P.: 27th Jan 2006 - 20:09 GMT

I'm glad I go into Kennsington everyday for lunch, maybe me and my co-workers will see this guy while strolling and launch some garbage his way. Hopefully he'll charge at us and provoke us into "defending" ourselves... as obviously he is a very tough person to pick a fight with a woman.

?: 27th Jan 2006 - 20:13 GMT

I'm just wondering why anyone didn't cold-cock the guy the second they saw him lay a hand on a woman?

Etc Etc: 27th Jan 2006 - 20:43 GMT

I like how everyone glosses over the fact that she's punching him with her keys between her fingers. THAT is assault with a deadly weapon, no?

Percival: 27th Jan 2006 - 20:51 GMT

The side of my car got a footlong scratch by a bike courier who jumped off the sidewalk and ran a red light.

Rather than whoop his skinny butt, I called the cops and followed him in the car. He was charged with leaving the scene of an accident and temporarily lost his driver's license. My insurance company sued him and his employer to recover the cost of painting two doors.

Now THAT's sweet revenge and no one ever harassed me with a potential assault charge.

anon (h162-040-088-098.adsl.navix.net): 27th Jan 2006 - 21:00 GMT

sombody needs to find out who that guy is and kick his ass

Argent47: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:01 GMT

I cannot see her "punching" him with her keys in those photos, although she does appear to be holding her keys in the first couple or so, I cannot see where it looks like she actually punched him, although she might have tried, but then fell on her ass. People who throw stuff back into cars are wrong. It is always somebody in the middle of a big, dirty city who suddenly decides they are sole conscience responsible for judging litterbugs. I never see these people picking up the sidewalk or trying to clean anything. Littering does not justify assault. She is a courier, she is stressed as part of her daily, she took it out on a litterbug and it went out of control. The guy looks like an f*ing asshole, but the whole situation sounds like it is her damn fault for being an arrogant bitch. I had a homeless guy in the city do this to me one time, flicked a cigarette butt in my face that I had tossed out. Oh I am sooo sorry! He was arrested and I filed charges against him. You pickup the litter, inform the people that they are assholes for littering loudly enough so others hear, throw it in a nearby receptacle and stand there giving them a dirty look. That is about all you are allowed to do under the law. You could take pictures of them and post them here. But any type of physical or property assault is bullshit. Anybody who thinks they are Judge Dredd, or who thinks they are so perfect as to be able to rectify all littering by applying selective vengance (or assholes who attack young women and try to kill them like this guy) needs to grow up. I have a *little* sympathy for the girl, and basically none for the guy. They should be forced to apologize to one another and admit to a situation of mutual assholeness on public tv. Beyond that, fk em!

katrinar: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:01 GMT

you never know how others are going to react anymore.

i think everyone here is simply saying that things CAN get pretty rough now adays.

i've lived in this city for nearly 30 years, and only in the last 5 have started to feel unsafe in any way.

Sushi: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:03 GMT

Fritz SOOOOO TRUE!

The first I thought was that guy must be polish. BTW bikers can be such beligerant asses as if they own the road.

Mark: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:05 GMT

Messed five years in DC. Saw plenty of this kind of silliness. All I can say is choose to de-escalate.

Timichango: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:13 GMT

Jesus-h-christ - psycho motorists strike again! It's getting bloody ridiculous out there. Glad that she's ok... can't say I'm as glad about the driver. If anyone knows her, and if she needs some help getting her ride fixed up, email me and I'll do what I can to assist a fellow fixer: biobeast at hot mail dot com

Mews: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:21 GMT

"The side of my car got a footlong scratch by a bike courier who jumped off the sidewalk and ran a red light.

Hey wow! You're a sociopath! Congratulations.

Brixton: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:26 GMT

I read about half the comments, and don't have time to finish, as interesting as the debate may be. But the fact of the matter is, as far as the law would be concerned, it would be SHE who would be considered to have committed the first act of disorderly conduct/threat/assault, because she willfully and with intent picked something up and threw it at a person. He would be considered to have been littering, which is not a crime against a person (in this case, the messenger). While self-defence would sound like a silly argument on his part given that it was just a bit of garbage directed his way, it would legally hold water. She'd best not pursue a criminal case in this situation, as it would likely backfire on her, with damage to property charges to boot.

However, the photographer does have an easy case of disorderly conduct or terroristic threat, if the driver did indeed come charging at him with a bat, unprovoked and not in self-defence against the photographer.

Joe: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:35 GMT

Why were you taking pictures rather than helping the bike courier? If no one showed up, she could have been really hurt.

Etc Etc: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:42 GMT

Actually, I don't know if it's keys or some kind of clip. In picture 3, you can see her with it in her right hand, and in picture 4, she is hitting him with her right hand (though her hand is blocked from our view by her arm). She is, clearly, hitting him with the two prongs of the clip/keys.

Guest: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:42 GMT

The bitch chucked food in his car. Yeah, he's a moron for littering, but she made it personal. He reciprocated with another personal and extremely immature move (dumping coffee on her).

It's nice she's so passionate about the environment that she *seeks personal confrontation* by shoving food back into people's laps, but honestly, what did she expect?

Galaxy: 27th Jan 2006 - 21:45 GMT

Mad props to her for returning the litter to it's rightful owner and mad props to those people who intervened. If id'a seen her drop his garbage back in his car I woulda laughed at his crazy ass.

That dude, needs his wifey in the white vest, to schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist asap (and some tooth whitening toothpaste). Really, it took 6 people to hold him back and he's still acting all buck wild, he was prolly making crazy animal sounds the whole time. He dumped coffee on the couriers head? Wha'?? Stompin' on the tire, pullin' on the bike, pullin' on her then he busts out with a baseball bat? That dude's got some dangerous pent up rage inside of him.

If he doesn't watch it with the anger he'll end up in prison being someone's bi***. Really, though.

Triadmaster : 27th Jan 2006 - 22:03 GMT

To "Mews": Red light means stop. I'm glad that the violater of it was made to pay. You need to study more, and until you do, please stay in your mommy's driveway. - TF

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BicyclistsBillofRights

Blake: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:04 GMT

"Female picks up Males trash and tosses it back into Male’s vehicle, nothing happening here regarding violations
throwing trash at someone is assault."

Chucky, repeat after me, "The vehicle is not the person." "The vehicle is not the person."

Not that the cyclist was in the right, but what she did is not assault.
(And I am picking on you, but you're not the only person in the thread who made this mistake, and I think it's a telling one.)

Chucky: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:08 GMT

she threw the food/garbage at him through his window. she's outta line.

Liz: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:12 GMT

"Oh lord. Don't you start on that too. Please give me ONE example of someone being murdered over litter."

Don't know anyone that has been murdered over litter...but someone was murdered all because they wouldn't buy cigarettes for some underage punks.

rick: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:25 GMT

From what I heard (and I wasn't there, but this is from someone who was, and is there in the pictures wrestling with the driver), the driver came too close to the cyclist, nearly knocking her down. But her handlebar scratched the paint on the car. He yelled something nasty at her, she yelled something nasty at him - that's when he got out of her car, and these photos start.

Sorry, that's second hand, but I heard it right after the altercation.

EnviroTO: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:29 GMT

Who knows how she put it into the car. She may have just lobbed it in and not even hit him which is not assault... it is littering into his car. Without knowing what path the garbage took and at what velocity it is impossible to say whether she did anything wrong at that point. To me having coffee poured onto a person is a far greater violation than tossing some piece of garbage (which unless really slimey or heavy would have no impact on the recipient). The guy committed the first crime, she put the trash back into his car (only if the purpose was to hit him or if it hit him hard would that be a crime), he poured coffee on her (second crime), and she got back at him by scratching his vehicle (third crime). The whole attitude that his vehicle is sacred but the littering is fine and the assault on her is fine is misplaced. If somebody assaults me I'm not going to be too concerned about their property in the heat of the moment.

Matt: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:30 GMT

I like what she did, but she should also be prepared to deal with this kind of response. No one likes to be shamed in public, especially assholes. I spit into open windows of cars/trucks that are parked in a bike lane. If they endanger me for their own convenience, they should know my disgust. But I am also prepared to back that up -- either by riding my guts out to get away, or face some wrestling or yelling.

Chewy: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:33 GMT

I always want to pickup and throw back the butts / litter ppl throwing out from their cars. Those selfish ppl make our city dirty.

Jym: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:36 GMT

=v= Please, POST HIS PLATE NUMBER (and make and model of the vehicle). Their anonymity is a big part of why they feel they can act this way. Whatever the outcome of this particular case, we should all be able to know whether this violent gobshite is at the wheel.

Leah: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:45 GMT

Hello all! I am the girl in the pics. My name is Leah and although I am a courier, I was WALKING my bike up Agusta when the incident took place. He was driving and opened his door (while driving) and yelling profanities he threw his beef patty on a bun out of his door. I walked over to his car, and right or wrong, I opened the door and "gave" him back his food (which he MUST have dropped by accident!) He then lost it, and jumped out of his car and threw 2 large Timmies at meand then grabbed me by my helmet and tried to toss me around a bit.It was at that point that my bike lock key (that I wear on a bracelet around my wrist) scratched his car. I have read all the postings about people sympathetic to the car driver due to the expense of repairing the scratch but sorry folks, i doubt that it will cost him anything to repair as it was a 1.2cm mark in the clearcoat only(did not damage the paint) but regardless a scratch none the less. Then with some "encouraging" from some helpfull bystanders he got in his car and drove away...or so I thought! People were comming up to me and saying that I should have him charged but at that point I just figured I had made my anti-littering point and and eye for and eye with the coffee shower, I mean I did throw that patty right. But just as I was getting on my bike to ride home he came running back and thats when the photos start. He had driven half a block and decided that the scratch was worthy of a more thorough beating I guess.
Now for a bit of clarity on a couple of things...
The blonde girl is his girlfriend...she also makes a pretty good shield from an angry mob!
I was NOT punching anyone! especially not with keys in my hand! I was just trying to save my bike (I just built it a week ago!!)
And as for the police charging him....
He took off in his car as soon as he heard the sirens....they chased him down but it is not a crime to leave the scene. They were going to charge him with a variety of things including assult with a weapon x2, mischief x2, aggravated assult, etc, but the police informed me that if I went ahead and placed those charges then they would have to charge me with mischeif for the scratch.
So in the interests of good karma (and my own sanity) I have opted to "let it go" and allow the universe to repay this angermanagement case in its own way.
And finally to those who say that i must have had a sudden case of self ritousness in regard to littering.....YOU ARE WRONG! I hate littering and NEVER do> In fact I am constantly picking up litter and make my son pick up litter at the park. I just feel that it is such a fixable issue in the world today. If everyone would not throw their own piece of litter then there would be none!! What a concept eh!?
enjoy the beautiful winter riding!

Leah: 27th Jan 2006 - 22:49 GMT

P.S. if anyone knows the girl with the vest on, who was the first to jump on his back, please please let me know. I owe her at least a heartfelt thanks in person. And to everyone else who was there and helped out THANK YOU!!!! xo

Etc Etc: 27th Jan 2006 - 23:00 GMT

So the litter was a hamburger and bun? How is that different from people throwing bread crumbs to birds? Pigeons would clean up that "litter" in five seconds flat!

anon (thrillworks-v143.fibrewired.on.ca): 27th Jan 2006 - 23:05 GMT

Haha... It looks like he's gettin' his ass kicked by a chick. What a loser.

Leah: 27th Jan 2006 - 23:07 GMT

I see more "keys in my hand" nonsense...I did NOT have keys in my hand...what appears to be keys is actually the earbud to my mp3 player...it just happens to look like it is in my hand but is not, its just suspended in the air near my hand in this pic. And Etc, etc- It was a beef patty in a bun in paper and its bag...regardless...of what kind of food it was or whether it could be eaten by any one of T.O.s starving pidgeons...we all know that wasnt this jackasses intention when he popped his door and threw it out!

Dave: 27th Jan 2006 - 23:15 GMT

Leah, getting charged with Mischief is nothing compared to aggrevated assault. I urge you to reconsider and charge him. Seriously, he's an idiot who could possibily do this to someone else.

Begging: 27th Jan 2006 - 23:28 GMT

Please please please post plate number. Please?

anon (hwcgate.hc-sc.gc.ca): 27th Jan 2006 - 23:36 GMT

I hope the blonde dumps her loser boyfriend!

hool: 27th Jan 2006 - 23:38 GMT

hi leah (i'm the photographer). looks like i stirred up quite the shitstorm. i think it's caused a good debate and raised awareness. thanks for posting your side of the story.

to the previous poster: no, no plate numbers. that would serve no purpose except further violence. if leah can let it go, so can you.

lambchop: 27th Jan 2006 - 23:52 GMT

I've been beaten to a pulp for doing less than what she did, by big angry men. I'm wondering if the guy threw the food and somehow it landed on her? I think if had hit me in the face while riding, that's the only way I'd think of throwing it back into a car. Otherwise why bother? We live in filthy cities anyway, like getting back at one litterbug will make a difference. I wouldn't have pulled on his jacket, I think by that point I would've headbutted him and then punched him in the solar plexus. But that's me. I think it's cool that she got caught, I'm glad it got photographed, I tell people now about my courier life and sometimes about these kinds of stories and they never believe that a guy will actually haul off and beat up a woman in broad daylight...they just don't believe me. It was gratifying to see it caught on film. I hope SHE is ok and that he is reflecting on anger management skills. It wasn't a fair fight...the poor guy never had a chance.

Leah: 28th Jan 2006 - 00:01 GMT

Hey Hool,
WOW! Crazy debate, eh?! I couldnt figure out why all these ramdom people were coming up to me and talking about it....I was like, how the heck do all these people know about it?! But it is good to talk about things like this and I can respect the opinions of all the posts, both in my favor and not. I do know that I crossed a line by tossing the litter back at him (legally wrong) but would do it again as I feel that it was morally right. The people who ask if I think I am some sort of litter police are the same people who litter when they think noone is watching.
I am not sorry for doing my part to stand up for our city/planet.

Triadmaster : 28th Jan 2006 - 00:06 GMT

Smart move, not giving Bicoastal "_Jym_" the plate number. He's a dangerous kingpin of a _real_ whacko organization of thugs.

Chipotle: 28th Jan 2006 - 00:38 GMT

the girl deserved it! One time I saw a girl try to bother Tiesto while he was djing and Tiesto gave her a smack. Security came and threw the girl out of the rave for being so stupid!!!!! I would be mad to if my food came back into my car!

derek: 28th Jan 2006 - 00:38 GMT

you rock, leah. that dude was an idiot for getting physical. he made a mistake, you called him on it, and he should've owned up to it instead of acting like a moron. even if you would have scratched his car, it doesn't warrant assault (nothing does besides self-defense).

i hope his g/f convinces him to seek some help to deal with that anger.

Peter: 28th Jan 2006 - 01:03 GMT

hell, id smack tiesto if he was spinning at a rave i was at. he sucks.

DUH: 28th Jan 2006 - 01:16 GMT

Leah-- you got JUST what you deserved. Period. You see some littering and you want to serve up a little justice-- as YOU see it. Fine. Guess what, you open the door to allow some a-hole to do the same. You don't like what you got? Tough shit, sister. Next time, keep your fucking personal priorities to yourself. Dig?!

hool: 28th Jan 2006 - 01:38 GMT

to DUH: your post negates itself. you just told someone that it is your opinion that people should keep their opinions to themselves. DUH indeed.

PK: 28th Jan 2006 - 01:38 GMT

LEAH, Leah, Leah....I'm glad to hear you're ok, but things could've been much, much worse for you.

First tip that someone is off base should clue you to someone's emotional quotient. Low. Just chucking food out like that? Hello.

I'm very upset about the 'advice' the force ]Police[ gave you. I would like their badge numbers, because they ought to be reported to their supervisors. Why?

Van driver throwing coffee on you IS ASSAULT.

ANY MALE, ASSAULTING A WOMAN, needs to be thrown in jail. Period. WTF?

There are too many women abused by predators, like him. It's the same way he reacts at home, no doubt.

So, you accidentaly scratched his car and he attacks you physically, as well as your bike? Sorry, no reason for assaulting anyone, let alone a woman.

He also turned back to assault you.

That's premeditated, at this point.

The Police aren't fucking lawyers. They SHOULD have charged him with assault. Period. SO WHAT, you get charged with mischief. Your first offense, discharged. His assault on you is more troubling ]first the coffee[ then the premeditated assault ]because he returned[.

The Police just don't get it as well as many 'men' in this society, that you do not EVER strike a woman. Period.

The fact that he returned to assault you, because of a minor scratch, which he was himself responsible for, tells me he is off his meds, needs to be placed on meds or belongs in jail for a lesson.

Yep, I have a big issue with predators.

My Mother, who has a brown belt in karate has the same advice. Strike hard fast, then get the hell outta there. It's about self preservatiopn, not any medals.

Next time a male is getting in your face. A hard solid kick to the groin and skedaddle. Or a credit card on edge across the eyes works....

You take care and think before you act. There are many, many whack jobs out there and 999 Queen St., isn't happening for them.

Peter: 28th Jan 2006 - 02:31 GMT

i think this totally blows the fuck neck face post out of the water. not to mention justo gallego.

viva le new content takeover!

Walt: 28th Jan 2006 - 03:10 GMT

No licence plate numbers! This thread is being viewed by enough people (it is linked to at least one other Toronto forum now), that this idiot car driver will have it pointed out to him by numerous people. He'll look like a fool in front of people who actually know him and that is enough.

Walt: 28th Jan 2006 - 03:11 GMT

PS: thanks hool for posting these. You did a service.

anon (h-66-167-48-132.sttnwaho.dynamic.covad.net): 28th Jan 2006 - 03:27 GMT

Now being discussed on MetaFilter as well.

colin: 28th Jan 2006 - 03:27 GMT

it almost looks like that chick in the white vest is the girlfriend/wife of the offender???? is this true? it looks like theyre holding hands in one pic.

Steeker: 28th Jan 2006 - 03:31 GMT

Leah .
You did a good thing and I wish I was there I rode through Kensington about 12;30 pm that day, if your wheel is messed up I'll get you a new one.cheers

Masher: 28th Jan 2006 - 03:39 GMT

What the fuck are you people ranting on about? That skag courier commited an assault. Sure-you shouldn't litter, but you also shouldn't commit criminal assault, which is what that little cunt Leah did.

Fuck her. 'Defending her space.' Whatever.

Cavit8: 28th Jan 2006 - 03:47 GMT

Hey Leah

How's your bike? Looks like pencil neck was stompin' it a bit. Good goin' girl. I get pretty sick of people using this city as their trashcan.

Masher - feeble troll.

sm1: 28th Jan 2006 - 04:47 GMT

someone must have made a similar comment along the way but to me, the most disturbing thing is the absurd measurement that the first person used.. "scraping his car with a key takes it to a level far and above anything else. That sort of damage costs several thousand dollars to repair.." FAR ABOVE ANYTHING ELSE? AS IT COSTS...? Guess other intangible or abstruct damages, we don't know how much they would cost, huh? What a sad reflection of the world we live in.
money money money

take care leah

j: 28th Jan 2006 - 04:53 GMT

it obvious he is a wacko by carrying a baseball bat in the middle of winter...bet this isn't his first incident of road rage...100 to 1

tjstheiii: 28th Jan 2006 - 05:10 GMT

Being lazy and throwing your shit out onto a city street is an offence vs everyone in the city and everyone visiting the city. By putting it back in their car, where it should have stayed, is A-OKAY.

Littler spreads around, as a car hits that bag, tears it, the napkins inside fly around, the hamburger wrapper flies somewhere else.... you should have demonstrated this VIA spreading his burger around the inside of his car.

I'm not really sure why people in this post see it as such an offense to return an ignorant litter’s litter to the rightful spot, with the owner.

I’ll be sure to empty my garbage can in your living room. DO NOT RETURN IT TO ME; SIMPLY PLACE IT INTO YOUR TRASH. IT’S MY RIGHT TO THROW IT THERE LOLOLOLZZZ!!!!

It's your city, dont let lazy sob's trash it.

Galaxy: 28th Jan 2006 - 05:13 GMT

Yey Leah! Nice photos Hool!

Masher...why'd you throw the beef patty out of the window? Be a hoot, don't pollute! ;)

EnviroTO: 28th Jan 2006 - 05:18 GMT

I would have charged him and faced the consequences. He was over the top and deserves what he gets. When you say you gave it back to him did you throw it at him or pass it to him? In any case that array of charges he was going to get was serious and I can't help but think he shouldn't be getting away with it. He needs professional help with that type of temper... he could kill someone some day.

anon (cpe-24-164-154-80.si.res.rr.com): 28th Jan 2006 - 05:29 GMT

once I asaw a guy litter on my bike. I opened the passenger wdoor and threw the pepsi can back in. aparently he couldn't find a spot in NYC and had to pee in it. Unfortunately he became covered in his own urine.

U.P.: 28th Jan 2006 - 05:55 GMT

If his car got scratched because he attacked you and in the process of that your key scartched his vehicle, then who cares if you get charged. The charge will get dropped as it's due to his actions, not yours. Any reasonable prosecutor or judge would let you slide for returning his patty to him. Either way, being humiliated on the internet will be much harsher punishment for him. I wonder what his job is? You know this will make the news eventually.

T. PO'd O.: 28th Jan 2006 - 06:53 GMT

Leah kicks ass. Way to stand up for what you believe. You're brave(or psycho), either way you rule, and evil, littering, raging, skank dating, polluter sucks.

Es in Ottawa: 28th Jan 2006 - 07:08 GMT

Road rage is everywhere....my sister in law was on a city bus when the driver said to her watch this, he was about to 'squeeze out' a cyclist, when she saw it was her brother, my husband! She yelled don't do it! It's my brother, so the driver gave him space between the bus and the curb! Talk about crazy!

Leah, teaching your children to stand up for what you believe in, and to keep the city clean, you have shown everyone on this forum and others that you are a strong woman.

I do agree that pressing charges is paramount, please talk to a lawyer, I am sure that you will find one willing to talk to you especially with these photos to back it all up. Men like this don't do this only once, it is a way of life.

Stay strong and live large!

another torontonian: 28th Jan 2006 - 07:32 GMT

leah created her own pile of shit. if u're gonna fire up the kitchen, be prepared for hell.

just a guy...: 28th Jan 2006 - 08:13 GMT

she's not trying to lay blame on anything else there guy. she fully accepts what she did and stands by it. you totally missed the point there champ. kudos to you.

leah: good job. the world needs more people like you.

cyclist hater: 28th Jan 2006 - 08:18 GMT

I would have run the bitch over if it was me. Then stole her bike.

Kristnaskelfir: 28th Jan 2006 - 08:23 GMT

Leah, please consider pressing charges. I'd chip in $100 to pay any "mischief" fine you might receive. (Which seems unlikely, considering the scratch occurred in the midst of his assault upon you.)

This man is a danger to society, and needs a criminal record to bring him to the attention of it. I'd bet he'll be specifically targetting couriers with his car from now on, if he gets away completely clean.

Mahatma Gandhi: 28th Jan 2006 - 08:34 GMT

I agree that the plate should be made public. It's not about more violence. Quite the opposite. If he knows he's not anonymous he is less likely to attack and to reach for a baseball bat.

cyberdude: 28th Jan 2006 - 08:36 GMT

Hehe. I love it.

According to this thread, his throwing something (coffee) at her is assault, but her throwing something at him (which was done FIRST, btw) is not.

His initial offense of littering is stupid, gross, and illegal. But it was not directed personally at Leah. Her throwing it back at him changed the dynamic of the situation.

Let me put that differently: She threw something at him. She was the first to commit any action directly against someone else. She's the one who made this whole thing personal. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, folks, especially because a lot of us are feeling with our hearts and not our minds (male vs female altercation, the guy's face in the pics, etc) and are siding with her, but this thread has an eyewitness account which clearly shows that while he was wrong for littering, she's the one who committed the first offensive act against an individual.

Arguing over details like "she didn't throw it at him, she threw it into the car where he was sitting" doesn't change the fact that she's still the one who took the situation and escalated it to a personal level.

And before I get totally destroyed in a flamewar of epic proportions, let me say this:

Good for her. If he threw food out the window, I hope she got some on him. With everything I said above, I still think she's less in the wrong than he is.

Though keying his car, while maybe deserved, was uncool.

/Don't scrap with bike messengers. Whether they're male or female, it don't matter. They're tough as nails.

cyberdude: 28th Jan 2006 - 08:43 GMT

... And then after hitting POST, I look back through the thread, and see Leah's given us her story.

gotta remember to read the WHOLE thread next time.

chewbaccasbitch: 28th Jan 2006 - 10:17 GMT

Fuck that dude, charge his ass for assault, We Aussies just jump on the radio and have a swarm of bike locks come crashing down on his numbskull....but screw him, leah, look into the pics and see the anger in his eyes, hes a cunt which needs to be taken down a notch. Im from Australia shit even we can see that this dude sucks.

William: 28th Jan 2006 - 11:09 GMT

I believe that the man who dumped trash was wrong. Having the trash put back in is justice. For those of you who think that it was wrong for her to put the trash back in; well, you will be the next one to drink the koolaid. Leah is a patriot if you ask me. She took a chance, got coffee thrown on her, and didn't care. She did what was right. And if you don't do what is right, then you're just better off.. sucumbing to what ever life gives.

Many of you cling to "laws" saying what she did was wrong. Citizens support laws. Some by taxes, Leah by action.

Action is the oposite of lethargy. Leah, if I weren't married, I'd marry you just for what you did. And I'd probably get my ass kicked out of the house.

j: 28th Jan 2006 - 13:29 GMT

bottom line regardless of sides in this issue...the man is a wacko, plain and simple, he's the one that turned a simple altercation into a full blow assault...

smarty pants: 28th Jan 2006 - 13:38 GMT

I can't believe some of the responses I'm reading here. People telling her she should'nt have thrown the food back in his vehicle. Fuck that, apathy is a form of laziness and not caring.

Its like this, if someone kicks you in the shin and you kick them back, does that give them the right to then attack you, no you were simply retaliating to the kick in the shins.
The problem with aassholes is they don't know they are assholes and people should take it upon themselves to inform an asshole, that they are indeed an asshole, which she did by throwing his garbage back in his vehicle. If he was smart he should have realized that he got busted for littering, drove away and found a garbage can, but he did not.
He was the one who made this a physical altercation buy throwing coffee, and there is a difference between someone throwing garbage back in the vehicle from which it came and someone intentionally throwing coffee on someone. Plus the fact he came back to have this continue proves his intent even more (Leahs' action was a reaction his was not).
And further more, what fucking man attacks a female, regardless of what she did, does'nt matter if she kicked the fuck out of his vehicle thats just wrong.

Remember kiddies, real men don't hit women!

Mantra: 28th Jan 2006 - 14:43 GMT

This world is turning to crap because we let it turn to crap. The system is broken when bad people get off on technicalities (i.e. "she started it by throwing the garbage back in his car", give me a f'n break!) and you people who who support that mode of thinking are the same people who would sue a store because you slipped on the sidewalk in front of it.

Right on. Someone who has the balls to let another human know that they are an asshat without manners, morals, nor ethics. Oh, that's right, she wasn't born with balls. Oh well, what's the rest of you guys' excuses??

FLIPSIDE: 28th Jan 2006 - 14:50 GMT

Pic number ten (7986.jpg) is a fucking Da Vinci. It's E.T. and Eliot touching fingers. It is so fucking rad. Look at the love there. The angry, cropped Alanis clutches the Blue Meanie while Bike Girl makes fishy faces. I'm fucking rock hard.

Scunny: 28th Jan 2006 - 15:05 GMT

Back in the day (25 years ago), when I first started as a bike courier, I too was guilty of returning litter to motorized slobs in much the same manner (although I never actually had to open a car door to do so, as their windows had always remained oh so temptingly rolled open). And while I was never physically attacked, I did find that the reaction from these motorists was often much more volatile than I would have expected.

Apparently, hese sadly deluded folks - who feel so comfortable further mucking up our planet than simply tossing their refuse in the rolling garbage cans they are already sitting in - feel incredibly threatened if the perceived sanctity of their auto's interior is violated. Theirs is a different world, a sense reality framed by a windshield and still selfishly distorted by the 20th century's North American paradigm of automotive dependence.

Eventually, I found it to be dangerously counterproductive to raise the often pannicked ire - road rage - in these deluded creatures, especially when they were still piloting a motorvehicle.

Leah's a much quicker study than I. Her behaviour throughout this real real-life episode appears to have been at the very least 'explainable', whether one views her involvement as a form of vigilante-ism or merely a street-level form of citizen's arrest (littering does
counteract Toronto's bylaws).

From my admittedly biased perspective, her complete willingness to own up to her complicity in the escalation of the altercation and her measured response to the prospect of raising it further, are simply continuing examples of the sort of an honest and evolving concern for the greater good, that just might be best that we humans have to offer.

And to those who are demanding the sort of public rebuke of the motorist that our philosophical messenger Leah is willing to let 'Karma the Enforcer' deliver; that time would appear no further off than about five minutes after somebody publishes Hool's photograph of this bozo's license plate.

Peace!

dd: 28th Jan 2006 - 15:41 GMT

I agree that the motorist is a bastard who deserves to be hung.

Leah deserves a sound spanking, and a fine though.

Anyone who, in her situation, cries "victim"(not that she necessarily is, but many people here are) needs to give their head a shake.

I've been in her situation dozen of times, after messengering for 14 years. I've learned, and accepted:

1. People are often assholes, with no respect for others. That means they might litter. What the fuck, is she the litter nazi? Is she so fucking pure that she has the right to throw it back at someone?

2. People are often violently insane and homocidal. Why assume that someone's not? Littering is the first clue they're a prick. Unless you're ready fight to the death, don't confront. Because some people are ready, and able.

3. People don't change through confrontation. Anyone who tries that route needs a shrink to work out their own personal issues.

4. Riding in the city you take your life in your own hands. Either learn to take the heat, and stay cool, and avoid confrontations, or get worked up into a frenzy, where you're throwing garbage at people, keying cars, getting in fights. It's a fact of human nature.

I feel for Leah. I've gotten in many fights, damaged cars, been damaged, you name it. Every single time, I could have avoided it.
It sucks, but it comes down to this: many people are assholes, meaner, and more equipped, in their cars, with baseball bats and guns, than I am. I now pick my battles.

That said, that driver should be executed publicly. And Leah fined.

Retrograde: 28th Jan 2006 - 16:12 GMT

I have to say that, this is not surprising at all. Its this kind of antics that lead to the ever-growing population of critical massers, who do nothing for the city other than disrupt traffic, and cause a general nuisance. As a cyclist myself, i should have some sort of empathy for critical mass'rs, but after that group attacked a friend when he was in his pathfinder, they lost sympathy from me.
Why? because he was handicapped at that time. Riding a bicycle is rather difficult when you have your left leg in splints.

That aside, the courier (Leah) does get my sympathy, as I have been privy to road-raging motor monkeys. Some of which who have purposely driven at speeds above 60 on 40limit roads, in an attempt to scare me off the road. This jerk in the red/black coat... needs something. The fact that he attempted to destroy Leah's bike is rather sad. Tossing garbage and inflicting a minor scratch may not be suitable behaviour, but stomping on the rear wheel and causing harm to the rider is far from returning favours. Effectively, by stomping on the rear wheel, you disable the bike out-right - it's an attempt to destroy. The equivalent to what he was accomplishing would probably be slashing a rear tire, pulling the transmission fluid plug, and tossing a few metal chips into the tranny (if it has an open-gate shifter)

This guy is super asshole when you take into consideration that he's driving through kensington. an area well-known for it's preference for cyclists and enviromentally-minded individuals.

I think PK said it best. It's assault, and you should press charges, and accept the mischief charge against you. It's a small price to pay, but it should be gladly accepted. People like that should not be allowed to drive.

argent47: 28th Jan 2006 - 16:48 GMT

Leah. Sorry if I made any rash judgements, old experience I am still mad about in my mind. I really think you should press charges and accept the mischief charge, things like this should be documented before something worse happens. You should be very careful with approaching strangers in the city, you really have no idea what they are going to do. But good luck!

hool: 28th Jan 2006 - 17:25 GMT

i've read more than a few comments stating this article as a 'fake'. would anyone care to elaborate on what leads them to that conclusion? maybe my photos were so good (except for the crappy underexposed ones) that it's too hard to believe that this actually happened? i think it also has to do with the expression of pure rage in the motorist's face - it's almost histrionic, hence casting doubt on the validity of the event.

John Edwards: 28th Jan 2006 - 17:31 GMT

Sorry, but the first agressive act in this situation belonged to the female. She's the one who picked the fight. Maybe she'll be just a little less agressive towards motorists now.

Dave: 28th Jan 2006 - 17:53 GMT

Litter, in our cities, Canadian cities, we are not making this up.

Dave: 28th Jan 2006 - 17:57 GMT

You Canadians are way to violent, I’m staying here in Oakland, much safer.:)

Good for you biek chick, that guy was an A-hole

no, hool,: 28th Jan 2006 - 17:59 GMT

it isn't just that. all the poses and expressions seem stock and unnatural. it doesn't help that many of your older photos look this way, too.

and anyone at all could post the comment giving the courier a name: "oh, that's leah." and then "leah" herself could appear and tell her side of the story.

perhaps you could provide the names of the officers involved and the case number. something verifiable.

i mean, there's nothing wrong with faking it, really. i'm sure all the greats do. weegee used to do it all the time. the trick lies in not getting caught.

perhaps a solution is to just flat-out state, "i'm an artist, not a journalist," and abandon the burden of "what actually happened". i think it would free you up considerably.

Marvin Holivard: 28th Jan 2006 - 18:02 GMT

Come on... a female bicyclist picking a fight? This lesbian has too much testosterone flooding her veins. She should be pitied, and placed on an estrogen drip, stat.

hool: 28th Jan 2006 - 18:23 GMT

to the doubter: *shrug*. it's not like i was defending the validity of the event. i really don't care if it's considered 'real' or not, because the discussion surrounding it is real. but if i were to have staged this, i would have re-shot the first scene and got the damn exposure right. i take your disbelief as a compliment, so thank you.

i'm going out to shoot photos now. i'll make sure to tell the people in the streets "hey, stop looking so stock and unnatural - people on the internet aren't believing you!"

sometimes i'm an artist, sometimes i'm a journalist, often i am both together, they are not mutually exclusive.

weegee and hcb can eat a dong.

the cutterman: 28th Jan 2006 - 18:39 GMT

I wouldn't advise that sort of (cyclist) response here on South Africa. A lot of dudes are carrying and throwing garbage back into the car like that would get you shot, no error....

And if you key the car, then you an' yo mamma too!

Futon: 28th Jan 2006 - 18:50 GMT

Great shot hool! You really brought out the emotion of everyone involved in this stupid incident. Should the driver attacked the courier? Prob not. But the courier has no right to key his car, no matter if he did or did not throw food out of it. Both parties are stupid and both should be charged.

oscar: 28th Jan 2006 - 19:05 GMT

after reading the first couple of comments.. i have to say.... no one mentiosn the fact of what a complete retard the girl in the bike is for throwing garbage into someones car.. thats just asking for trouble, perhaps she too, deserved a scare. i just hope neither of them do something liek that in the future.

Catherine Penfold-Waxman: 28th Jan 2006 - 19:10 GMT

I have no idea why anyone thinks that these pictures are fake. I see this particular posting as being amazingly raw and real. And as for Hool's other work, I find it fascinating and inspirational. I wish I could "fake it" half as well as him.

Leah: you may have instigated something, but that guy was a complete fuckwit. Stay away from assholes, but keep picking up the litter. I do, and every little does help.

Catherine Penfold-Waxman: 28th Jan 2006 - 19:20 GMT

Leah: you may have instigated something, but that guy was a complete fuckwit. Stay away from assholes, but keep picking up the litter. I do, and every little does help.

bengio: 28th Jan 2006 - 19:26 GMT

i think people can very literal and uhng up on the specifics of what charges people are bringing to who. sure, tossing someone's litter back into their car, the police can take that to a judge on an assault charge. i'd like to see what happens in court when any judge sees the full story, with photographs. no way would that be a bad outcome for the courier.

herb: 28th Jan 2006 - 19:37 GMT

I did a similar thing last summer. Up on Dupont a van dropped their coffee out the window so I decided to give it back to them. Their window was open a crack so I shoved the coffee cup back in. That got them really pissed. The passenger threatened me with what I think was a switchblade (blade still hidden). That got me thinking that this wasn't worth the argument so I backed off onto the sidewalk, waited till they started driving and called the cops with their license plate.

The cop was great, he sympathized with my moral outrage and said that he also cycled. He said that even he never confronts people when he is offduty. Too dangerous. The police talked to the guys and did a background check. Looks like they had no record so it wasn't really worth it for me to pursue further. Since, after all, I didn't have incriminating evidence like photos of them attacking me or anything.

So, that could have been me fighting off an angry driver!

Toca Loca : 28th Jan 2006 - 19:54 GMT

Leah - good on you. I can't believe that people can condone violence of this nature as warranted!!!! That is such bullshit. BTW, this post has been boingboinged (boingboing.net).

I would be willing to contribute $20 to your legal fund if you decide to change your mind and press charges. I would strongly encourage you to do so. I'm also pretty optimistic that you would find a lot of other people willing to support you in covering any financial consequences of pursuing justice.

Speak-up for Men: 28th Jan 2006 - 20:07 GMT

Bike courier's like motorcycle riders are the most self-righteous sociapaths out there. This guys a bit of a dickhead . . . but you can bet the courier had more than her fair share of blame in this incident.

No doubt she runs redlights, rides on the footpaths and in Bus lanes - but hey, if someone litters . . . it's her God given right to take action. B*tch.

Chevette Washington: 28th Jan 2006 - 20:37 GMT

SUV & Litter & Violence. Microcosm; Macrocosm. Thats Big Oil right there in one guy viva Cyclista!
Versimiltude? I believe this was staged, but on a deeper level, by the city itself.

Eric: 28th Jan 2006 - 20:39 GMT

He was wrong to litter. She was foolish to think that OPENING HIS DOOR and throwing food back at him wouldn't result in an altercation.

Apparently none of you bikers have ever owned a car. To the owner it is like another home.

All that said, if you changed your mind and pressed charges(which I think would be the lawful thing to do), I would bet that you could post an address here and people would send you MORE than the cost of the fine(and the "damage" to the car). Think about it.

Zoo: 28th Jan 2006 - 20:47 GMT

Z00B0MB fights evil crime!

Minibike Winter Olympics are soon,

via http://www.flickr.com/photos/revphil/63795975/

only me: 28th Jan 2006 - 20:50 GMT

The misogyny is some of these posts in incredible.

The guy's "a bit of a dickhead"? Come on, he carries a baseball bat in his trunk, and I don't think it's for games.

The woman in the black vest is brave. And, incidentally, sexy as hell.

bkrog: 28th Jan 2006 - 20:54 GMT

Mush - and others:
You refer to 'Canada being 12 years behind the US' in crime: you'd better actually check sources and do some research before posting undocumented hearsay.
Check out http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_11403.shtml
A relevant quote from Canada's National Post (Jan 3): "Canada's overall crime rate is now 50% higher than the crime rate in the United States." He further noted, "Since the early 1990s, crime rates have dropped in 48 of the 50 states and 80% of American cities. Over that same period, crime rates have risen in six of the 10 Canadian provinces and in seven of Canada's 10 biggest cities."
More details and analysis follows.

rrrrr: 28th Jan 2006 - 21:08 GMT

I am a cyclist (I also drive) and encounter this kind of rage from motorists quite frequently. I think it is important to retain a Zen like state while navigating the streets (as another person commented).

It is dangerous enough just cycling without going all vigilante with psychotic drivers.

The pictures are obviously not fake - well done Hool on a great piece of photo-journalism.

Some kudos to Leah for standing up for what she believes in and for coming onto this forum and putting her side. But for the sake of your child and your own health and safety - there is no need to descend to his level. Maybe you should reconsider pressing charges - I too would happily contribute to any mischief fine.

The driver is clearly a bit beserk and needs some anger management sessions. A cold shower might also help.

Dominic: 28th Jan 2006 - 21:51 GMT

Just one thought...you've identified the courier. Since she's been talked out of pressing charges, can anyone identify the male? There should at least be a name to go with the face so he can take credit for his actions, right or wrong.

scribbler: 28th Jan 2006 - 21:52 GMT

People that litter are ignorant, arrogant pigs that deserve to have the trash they throw on the ground thrown back in their faces & the environmentally destroying cars they drive.
The drive needs lots & lots of therapy. And a baseball bat enema.

scribbler: 28th Jan 2006 - 21:54 GMT

People that litter are ignorant, arrogant pigs that deserve to have the trash they throw on the ground thrown back in their faces & the environmentally destroying cars they drive.
The driver needs lots & lots of therapy. And a baseball bat enema.

scribbler: 28th Jan 2006 - 21:54 GMT

People that litter are ignorant, arrogant pigs that deserve to have the trash they throw on the ground thrown back in their faces & the environmentally destroying cars they drive.
The driver needs lots & lots of therapy. And a baseball bat enema.

Uhclem: 28th Jan 2006 - 22:17 GMT

Bkrog: hard to know whether people read the National Post because they're ignorant, or are ignorant because they read the Post.

As any encyclopedia would have told you (Wikipedia here) "Compared to the United States Canada has far lower rates of violent crime such as murder, assault, and rape. Through the 1990s, the homicide rate in the United States was three times higher than it was in Canada, while the American rate for aggravated assault was double the Canadian rate. The rate for robberies was 65% higher in the United States."

Crime in Canada is declining overall, last year's murder rate in T.O. not withstanding. Again, from Wikipediaa, "In 2002, there were roughly 2.4 million crimes reported, of which 52% were property related crimes and 13% were violent crimes. This was the lowest crime rate in twenty-five years with 7,590 reported incidents per 100,000 people."

Mack-Limelight: 28th Jan 2006 - 22:17 GMT

Ya someone should ID the driver, like they did in the Japanese Subway Dog Poop girl story.

Toronto Driver# ??: 28th Jan 2006 - 22:25 GMT

As a driver, I commend Leah on her actions. I've personally flashed my lights at a litterer only to have them start to litter more crap out of their cars to spite me. There are way too many prick drivers out there who really should be brought to light. The keying part is a bit much if it was on purpose but on the other hand if someone threw coffee purposefully on my girlfriend because they can't deal with getting caught for their own nonsense then I personally would get great satisfaction from peeling their flesh off of them... So yeah I guess good work Leah :)

justin sane: 28th Jan 2006 - 22:34 GMT

Just wanted to give a shout out to my homies in the 512...u know who u are... peace out, bitches!

malcy: 28th Jan 2006 - 22:56 GMT

So, basically - TWO assholes cross paths; drama ensues. The bilestorm, generated by the photopost itself, is remarkable!

I hate littering. And I hate that guy too.: 28th Jan 2006 - 23:14 GMT

That guy is a total ass and I wish she'd pressed charges.
If I see him in Kensington I'm gonna buy a hamburger or a samosa or something and put it under his windshield wiper.

I enjoy sarcastically - and loudly - thanking litterers for being pigs.

expert witness: 29th Jan 2006 - 00:15 GMT

The bike girl should have pressed charges!
Don't be intimidated, if the police say "you will be charged to. Fine let the prosecuting attorneys prove their case! "Got evidence?"
Stand your ground against uncivil slobs, be they in SUV's, Suits, junkie jammies, or in spandex jogging shorts. What is wanted? A culture, a society of civil minding and active minds that will bring block heads of the sort pictured here to task and to face the ugly spoon of of their actions.
Press charges and let the chips fall as they will, "truth has a sound of it's own"!!

expert witness: 29th Jan 2006 - 00:15 GMT

debra: 29th Jan 2006 - 00:20 GMT

what a dumb broad, she deserved everything she got for throwing the litter back in his car.

Leah's My Hero: 29th Jan 2006 - 00:40 GMT

Myself, I've come very close to tossing lit cigarettes back into people's cars with an explanation like, "Oh... I guess you dropped this."

I'll just make my getaway while they are trying to put out the fire. ;)

Cucky: 29th Jan 2006 - 01:05 GMT

Leah, your dumbass deserved what you got and more. If you want to fight crime, join her majesty's RCMP. Otherwise stick to your mindless, skank-ho courier job. You area dumbass, but I'd still let you smoke my pole.

Cucky: 29th Jan 2006 - 01:06 GMT

Leah, youre dumbass deserved what you got and more. If you want to fight crime, join her majesty's RCMP. Otherwise stick to your mindless, skank-ho courier job. You are dumbass, but I'd still let you smoke my pole.

Greg: 29th Jan 2006 - 01:17 GMT

I was once a "brave" cyclist, until I got my head nearly bashed in. Now I realize how vulnerable cyclists are. For your own well-being, I suggest you (and Leah if she has a next time) just take a licence number and report whatever infraction you witness. Littering, and pretty much anything else I can think of, is just not worth your life/health.

Disgusted Californian: 29th Jan 2006 - 01:48 GMT

So a man not under immediate danger from a woman should just smack her around? Very pro-domestic violence, very classy. You "she got just what she deserved" lot are assholes, may you never get laid.

nathan: 29th Jan 2006 - 01:54 GMT

Wow, a dude going after a girl. I wish I had been there. I would have pulled him inside out by reaching down his throat and grabbing his ass.

Pondering: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:05 GMT

I do not understand folks trying to stir things up after Leah said she's letting
it drop. She admitted that she was not blameless and could be charged with
assault. Why persuade her to become a martyr to 'go after' that guy further?
Would that help the cause of courriers and anti-litterers? Besides, it
will cost Leah - and it could cost her dearly.

Sure, we could pay for her lawyer, cover her fines and other expenses but can we compensate for her time and reputation? Having a criminal record is not a good thing; having a conviction for assault would affect her job prospects.

The guy's face is on the net - many people who know him have read/seen this
(maybe including his boss & his in-laws). The next time he goes apeshit, this may be admitted as evidence. Leah should quit while she's ahead!

BTW: folks, when you see someone commit a crime (or a misdeed) think before you act. Not only don't two wrongs make a right - YOUR wrong action can be used to discredit your entire cause. For example the environmentalists who set fire
to SUV's in a dealer's lot cost the movement much public support (enough that I
wonder if that was their goal) - if we want to stop littering and make roads safe for bikes we must win the public's hearts and minds, not play tit-for-tat.

Argentius: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:09 GMT

In another world of fantasy, sudden karmic retribution paralyzes the guy for life so he has to learn what it's like to need some kindness from others to get on with daily life...

Littering IS really frustrating, but -- not necessarily in this particular incident -- some people take the policing a little too far.

On the way home a while back, I had picked up a couple of cans that someone else had left on the ground, and a bit later I forgot they were there and when I opened my bag at a stoplight, they came tumbling out. I was gonna go pick 'em up after the brief confusion, but this chick in a car beside me shouts "Thanks for littering, a$$hole!" That made me pretty upset, considering.

Jodes: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:22 GMT

Calling a girl a 'lesbian' for standing up to physical violence? Lordy, who threatened your masculinity? That's so pathetic. How cave-man of you. Its a good thing she's got no obvious physical differences or you'd be picking on that as well, I suppose. Dickwads.

If I had been in Leah's position, I would have gone through with the charges. So tired of people shrugging when others do wrong, and yes, you bet I would have (non-violently) defended my bike and called attention to the guy's behaviour. Im willing to bet its not the first time he's gone apeshit at someone. It won't be the last, either. He needs a dose of reality about how to treat others.

hbirdman: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:28 GMT

If you read Leah's account at 27th Jan 2006 - 22:45 GMT there were 5 assaults across 2 incidences. the first two were trivial food assaults of trash food and coffee then according to Leah's account he:

"grabbed me by my helmet and tried to toss me around a bit.It was at that point that my bike lock key (that I wear on a bracelet around my wrist) scratched his car."

which is the third assault and then

"with some "encouraging" from some helpfull bystanders he got in his car and drove away...or so I thought!".

He left the scene in his car which effectively end that incidence. He then returned to the scene by his own choosing at which point the photos begin that document the 4th assault . From Leah's account:

"But just as I was getting on my bike to ride home he came running back and thats when the photos start."

The final assault or perhaps threat of an assault was on Hool, to quote Hool:

"i followed the motorist back to his car to photograph his license plate number. he proceeded to open his trunk, take out a baseball bat, and charge me. i walked away, and was one of only two witnesses to stay at the scene and give a statement to police."

The first incident was fairly trivial and was shrugged off by Leah and even if she had keyed the car on purpose, which she stated she did not, it would a civil matter that would be pointless to pursue without an eyewitness to the keying

The assault documented in the photo stands on it own. It was not provoked because he left and choose to return. In essence violent revenge for what was maybe at best a civil matter.

Leah should reconsider pressing charges, maybe even civil charges, how's your back? it looked like your leg could have been hurt when he was stomping on your wheel. Hell, you make your living with your legs as a courier. This incident seem well documented with Hool's photos. You should think it over.

Hool, you should file a complaint with the authorities for the threat with the baseball bat. Did you snap any pics of that?

I think the cops were giving advice that caused them the least amount of paperwork.

drewish: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:31 GMT

This reminds me of an article we wrote for a zine. See "Confronting a motorist" in BUI #2 page 25)

oscar: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:39 GMT

To Leah, never pick a fight you can't win. According to nature, thats a reason to boot you form the gene pool. Where you scared when he attacked you? We only need to fear what we don't respect.

As for the guy I think he way over reacted, instead of hitting you, perhaps I would have just taken the hamburguer and smeared it all over your face and bike.

Next time, don't be so arrogant. If someone opens my car door im not going to kindly ask "what is the matter?", I'm going to try to defend myself because I don't know what that person opening my door can or will do. Dig?

I can hear it now, "oh but shes a girl", well yeah maybe this psycho bitch that opens my door and throws garbage at me is packing, you never know.. just like he had a bat you could've had a knife, for example.

A lot of people seem to also be debating hte legality, can he press charges for this, can she press charges for that. That is not relevant I think, what is important is that Leah learn from this experience and realize that it is not smart to do that activist retardedness. Trying to outsmart and insult people is not the way to go. Perhaps not lowering to their level is also a good thing?

If i poke a piece of fur with a stick and it turns out that it's lion and he bites my hand off, who is the idiot there? Of course they may shoot the lion afterwards because it might be dangerous to others, but that doesn't give me my hand back.

Also, I don't people like either of you belong on the street. He has no respect for women and littering, meanwhile you don't have respect for private property or the law.

Have a nice day.

dude: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:40 GMT

"Bike courier's like motorcycle riders are the most self-righteous sociapaths out there" Speak-up for Men: 28th Jan 2006 - 20:07 GMT

no. ceo's take that category.

Juggle: 29th Jan 2006 - 02:56 GMT

I don't consider throwing out small portions of food to be littering. The food will be consumed by bugs, birds and animals in a matter of hours. I'm sure they will appreciate it.

Therefore, I think this girl went way beyond the line. Why not just say something to the guy? By throwing the food back in his car, you're getting his interior dirty. It's not like it's a piece of paper. The bun probably had ketchup on it or what not.

I would have gotten pissed off too if I was that guy. You have no right to do that. You're one of those people who wants to control others. Trying to get a power trip just cause you're probably not too happy with your life.

When I first saw the pictures, I was really pissed off at the guy, but now that I think about the circumstances, you caused this whole thing!! You could have just verbally abused the guy or something, don't throw food in his car you bitch.

hbirdman: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:04 GMT

oscar, I think, what is important is not that Leah learn from this, I shure she allready has, but that the dickhead learn respect for the rule of law. You don't commit felony assault and battery in response to mischief. Press charges!

Norman Cay: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:05 GMT

....so fucked up. I once saw a poor bike courier getting similar treatment here in Santa Monica CA....I got out of my car and walked up to the motorist assaulting the bike courier and smashed his face into his windshield....he RAN OVER THE COURIERS BIKE partially....this is just like shocking....Canada is a nice calm place....from the times I have been there...

Paolo: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:06 GMT

Just to remind the roadraging driver that now the world knows your face. Keep your anger in check or someone is bound to return the favour.

Norman Cay: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:06 GMT

oscar: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:22 GMT

hbirdman, you are correct. As I was writing my comments I was not thinking about the guy, just trying to imagine from Leah's point of view what I would have thought about the whole thing.

Paolo: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:33 GMT

P.S. Leah,

You stood up against this thug for littering but back down when he assaults you. I'm afraid at this point it is abundantly clear that your responsibility is to press charges. If you're looking for a feeler for the moral climate that's out there, the Internet is a perfect barometer. So, use this to bolster your initial reaction to this man and follow through. Clearly, the community is more than willing to help you, provide moral support, and apparently financial. What better karmic justice can there be than this and lastly, what makes you think that Karma didn't pick you to ensure this punk is punished.

s: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:51 GMT

IS IT TRUE THE TORONTO POLICE ENCOURAGED HER NOT TO FILE CHARGES??

another bike commuter: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:55 GMT

Yay Leah for standing up against the disposable-world automotive culture! I understand not pressing anything further, not wanting to be part of that bad scene any longer.

yyy: 29th Jan 2006 - 03:59 GMT

ok so this woman, who by the way is riding a bicycle through public streets wearing sunglasses and listening to an ipod (illegal), picks up food that the driver threw out and throws it back at him and his vehicle, which is assault, then apparently keys his car after the driver retaliates by throwing cold coffee on her...... she is a fu@king moron!

colin: 29th Jan 2006 - 04:02 GMT

the only thing i hope comes from this is that just as people recognized leah, i hope people recognize the offender. someone oughta find out where he works and show these photos to his boss.

Gato: 29th Jan 2006 - 04:03 GMT

Just saw the story on BoingBoing. Leah, you should definitely press charges. Throwing back the food in the car was definitely not a good idea, but physically assaulting a smaller woman is for cowards and psychos. It's a pathological and socially dangerous behavior. Just look at his face on the pictures, this guy is scary. Justice has to tell him to cool down. Think about the day this will happen again, but this time without a camera or people around to help. You can help stop that.

So-Called "Austin Mayor": 29th Jan 2006 - 04:44 GMT

marquee scroll is here:
http://modernjackass.blogspot.com/2006/01/blog-post_28.html

NEW YORK GRITTY: 29th Jan 2006 - 04:58 GMT

Leah, you're obviously smart enough to ignore these haters. I (and many others who had a dicussion about this in NYC) think you rock. You've got to pick your battles though (damn, I sound like my father). This psycho driver could have been even crazier.

Regardless: keep riding, stay safe, and stick to your guns.

Kristin: 29th Jan 2006 - 04:58 GMT

The lack of inteligence of some of the posters on here is amazing. To whoever is posting the pictures: your lack of photoshop skills is trumped only by your complete lack of any cerebral matter. Leah, thank you for standing up to the ever-increasing number of over-testosteroned penis-replacement-SUV-driving troglodytes who think, like our little (in what must be so many ways) artist here, that the world revolves around them, and that there will always be someone around to clean up their trail of messes. While you would be doing the rest of the city a favor by going after this ass legally, you can rest assured that, in the end, you will be happily surrounded by your family, loved and admired by a son you are raising to be the complete opposite of the driver, and able to sleep well at night, while he will spend his life chasing or buying anything that will make him feel less empty and will most likely die alone in a puddle of his own urine.

Kristin: 29th Jan 2006 - 04:58 GMT

Reality: 29th Jan 2006 - 05:00 GMT

Throwing discarded waste back into a car is in no way assault. Any half ass lawyer can paint that picture to look like the return of lost material. The dumping of coffee is assault. The car keying was stupid- if real. The only real proof that is not word of mouth is against the jackass. Pictures. I hope he is turned into a mockery.

catbert: 29th Jan 2006 - 05:14 GMT

It's nice to hear someone actually stands up for the community.
Good job Leah!

becky: 29th Jan 2006 - 05:20 GMT

maybe the guy didn't know it was ag irl on the bike.

oh yeah, is that shocked looking blond woman his ladyfriend? shit, if i saw anyone i was dating freak out like that... i'd tell them to fuck off.

caaaaaaa: 29th Jan 2006 - 05:50 GMT

if this troll on her bike wouldve pulled the "throwing food in a car" stunt in Oakland california she wouldve been murdered. Leah, consider yourself lucky that you got off with a bent rim, soaked backpack and online humiliation from the incredibly hilarious pictures of yourself.

Not Diah: 29th Jan 2006 - 05:56 GMT

yo what the fuck, you idiots need to realize that by him throwing the food out the window he's

1. Feeding a homeless guy
2. Giving someone a job
3. Puts prison workers to good use

so what if he littered, that fucking cunt has no right to throw trash into his car. Stupid tree hugging bitch, this never would have happened if she was in the kitchen cooking dinner where she belongs. The hole was lucky to only get coffee thrown on her.

Seth Shaw: 29th Jan 2006 - 05:57 GMT

I would have fucking cocked that man in the throat. Then I would have explained to him the proper way to treat women while he tried to find his adam's apple.
Pigfucker.

KRIST: 29th Jan 2006 - 06:12 GMT

WELL IM NOT CONDONING WHAT THE GUY DID, BUT WHEN I FIRST SAW THE PICS, THE WOMAN ON THE BIKE LOOKS LIKE A MAN SO HE PROBABLY DIDNT KNOW SHE WAS A CHICK.

Sickened by women stay with guys like that: 29th Jan 2006 - 06:32 GMT

What I'm wondering is what the girlfriend is still doing with that guy. In the picture, it looks like she's trying to stop Leah from hitting him, instead of the other way around. If a "man" (which he's certainly not) would hit a woman in the street, there's no question about whether he'd hit one at home as well. And even if he doesn't hit her, she watched him attack another woman. That's a good chunk of the reason why guys who hit women *still* hit women - because there are women out there who allow it. I think that "women" (which the blonde is not) like that should be locked up right next to guys who hit women.

Roost: 29th Jan 2006 - 06:33 GMT

You both got what you deserved....

To Leah, who says she would "do it again", I say, I hope you get beat up again.... and maybe next time Karma will get your rims bent enough that you can't ride anymore...

This is precisely what you get when two morons meet on the street,

Zak: 29th Jan 2006 - 06:46 GMT

Good work Leah. I always want to give people back their litter, but for some reason, I never do.

Good work, girl in the black vest. Most people wouldn't get involved because it's 'not their problem'.

Chris: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:01 GMT

I must be the only one who thinks the photographer is a jerk for taking photos as he watched a girl get attacked.

Not even reporters are above true life. Screw capturing it and HELP THE POOR GIRL.

Or is it that important to have so many internet denizens in solidarity?

Peter: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:07 GMT

Dude's a putz. Where I come from, you treat women with respect. He deserves a very thorough beat down.

The police need a good talking to as well. Giving him back his litter is not assault or anything like that. And a good cop would see that. I think they just didn't want to deal with the paperwork.

winnebago: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:07 GMT

intresting how everyone who posted picture is making fun of Leah.
The angry man with yellow teeth and a nasty sneer needs some clam chowder image goodness too.

Youngster: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:09 GMT

Why are people assuming that the coffee was hot? (references to 3rd degree burns and such). Maybe the coffee was cold, and maybe the guy was trying to give the girl a shower? She is a bicycle courier, which as all studies show have a 96% chance of being a dirty hippy.

Jbear: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:14 GMT

thousands of posts and none of you even have a clue as to what actually happened except a few pictures which can be taken a lot of different ways. Random speculation, even by the one guy that was there, is not to have complete conclusions drawn upon it. Also, in the US, where many readers are from, have come to this page from links all over the net. Discuss what you must, but please dont judge these people. Engaging in violence is wrong, especially when in a city where violence is nothing compared to southern rivals such as chicago, NY, and D.C.
Assault is more of the threat of doing harm, while it is battery that is the actual hitting. Hence assault and battery. Someone up there go get a copy of the police report and post it in here, I would love to see that.

Mike D.: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:22 GMT

Police frequently encourage people not to press charges for two reasons. One, it may clog up the system where it may very well be handled externally on their own. Second, if she presses charges on him for assault and battery, then he, using her own necesary testimony, can return charges for damage to personal property and returning the assault. Neither is going to do any time in jail or prison time for these crimes without prior conviction on their record, so it comes down to fines and fees. He pays bill for possible stain removal and maybe bike repair. She pays for a new paint job on his car, plus possible interior cleaning for the food. It is in her best interest financially to back off. If she was hurt physically at all, or can afford to pay his bills, then by all means, press every charge you can.

Rand: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:27 GMT

The guy should be charged to the fullest, anyone with a bat going around should be if they decide to go nuts... Leah wasn't right either, I hate "garbage" people too. I live in a small town and pick up after kids along the local trails... It's not going to get any better if you don't call them on it, but throwing the stuff in the car and keying his car is not cool either. Just bitch em out. I used to live in TO and am going to again soon, this is not the place Toronto or Canada should be... It's time to act like adults. This is just embarrassing for everyone. Shame.

LitterBlitter: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:42 GMT

Don't litter in Toronto. This is kind of a cultural norm thing (although you couldn't really tell by looking at Kensington). I'm not particularly environmentally aware -- I grew up middle class in Toronto, and I remember being shocked at the realization that people threw their garbage on the street. To me that's like spitting on the floor inside a hotel. There's no excuse except accidental droppage.

I'm not pointing this out to be high and mighty. It's just that in my peer group this would be seen as really strange and bizarre behaviour, not an accident. Cultural norms are funny things.

If I see someone littering, I usually just play innocent and say: "Excuse me ... sir ... sir ... you dropped your x." I suppose it helps that I'm non-white / 6'3" / 215 lbs

feet!: 29th Jan 2006 - 07:48 GMT

Dude's got issues and girl should have biked the hell away!

Scary man comes towards me - I run. I don't know about anyone else here.

William: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:04 GMT

Hi, Leah! I'm in for up to US$500 on any legal fees or fines that help this guy get put away. Just ask the Boing Boing people to post a follow-up and I (and a zillion others) will see it. Or ask the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition to post it in their weekly email. Or both.

It's important to me because guys who hit don't do it just once. He has probably done this before, and he likely will go on to assault or abuse other people. Once he has a criminal record for something like this, that makes a lot of things easier, things like restraining orders for his exes and court-ordered anger management classes.

Getting in your face after returning his litter is understandable. Assault isn't, let alone the premeditated assault on you and the attempted assault with a weapon on the photographer that followed. You, and only you, can start reigning this guy in. I urge you to do it!

Youngster: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:07 GMT

LitterBlitter, take your accidental droppage and shove it up your manhole. And lose some weight while you're at it you fattie.

Kindofkensington: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:09 GMT

Jaysus, I can barely believe some of the stuff I've read here. Got the link from BoingBoing, used to live just up the road on Augusta, saw some idiotic carry on in my time at the corner of Augusta and Oxford, but this is the worst ever. Honestly, this driver has issues, and anyone who blasts Leah for standing up for common decency needs to take a minute and figure out what the hell is important in this world. If one's automobile paint job is enough to justify that sort of violence, then we are at a sorry pass, and everything Kensington still stands for is already floating down the river. I've seen so many people littering with a similar disregard for their environment, and I wish I had the balls to do what Leah did. Your car isn't your family, your paint job isn't your life, your urge to dump your crap isn't a right, and your compulsion to spew vitriol (in real life and on message boards) should be channelled in a more productive way. For instance, you could stop litterbugs, and maybe prevent people getting beaten up in road rage incidents. May the spirit of Kensington live on, and may violent people everywhere be told their behaviour is not just unacceptable, but also bloody weird. Leah and photographer, I'd love to get you a nice coffee in Casa Acoreana. And maybe a drink down in Last Temptation to laugh at the driver and his poor girlfriend! KofK

stonedrobot.com: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:18 GMT

i dont care if it is mine, if some dumb dyke on a bike throws trash in my car you can expect the same reaction.

THe Dave: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:20 GMT

I've got to say, that I side with the girl in the beginning of the story.

I've been known to pick up other people's trash, and hand it to them, saying "Hey buddy, you must have dropped this."

Of course, I'm 6'1" 300lbs, they tend not to hop out of cars to start something with me.

Guess that makes me the litter-bully!

Dave, The.

Anon: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:30 GMT

The Dave:

So you're a big fatty.
Have another cheeseburger lardass

Have a nice day!

adam: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:49 GMT

how much longer before no more comments are allowed?

BigHungryAntelope: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:50 GMT

I am torn on this:

On one hand, there is no excuse for her picking fights with people. People need to chill out and live and let live and stop acting like Pat Roberson! A little tolerance goes a long way.

On the other hand, if anyone is familiar with Kensington, they know PEDESTRIANS RULE!!! The place is meant for walking. Unless you are from out of town and don't know better, or accidentally made a wrong turn, or are making a delivery, just driving the streets of Kensington means you are pushing your luck! If you are driving through Kensington, you should be doing 5 KM max and giving max respect to everyone there because you are the one pissing everyone off! The guy seems like he was itching for trouble and I don't have any sympathy for what happened to him. And then threatening the photographer with the baseball bat totally pushed it over the line - it is one thing to be pissed off at someone throwing something at you, but when you threaten uninvolved bystandards you are crossing the line into psycho territory.

If I was appointed judge, jury, and executioner of the world:
1. Girl should get off with a stern warning.
2. The guy should be permanently banned from ever coming back to Kensington again. Let him drive his SUV to a supermarket in the suburbs to get his fruits and veggies next time! That would more suit his lifestyle anyway.

Ian Brown: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:53 GMT

The "humourous" images and comments about Leah's alleged lesbianism must have been made by people who couldn't read the post(s) mentioning her daughter.

Hatred of cyclists seems to be correlated with hatred of gay people in this forum.

THe Dave: 29th Jan 2006 - 08:57 GMT

Yeah, (anon you little twit) this big fatty, rode his little Cannondale from San Francisco to LA.

And, frequently get my 100 mile days in.

So, chew on that.

groovehouse: 29th Jan 2006 - 09:41 GMT

fazed on 1.29.06

http://fazed.net/

greetings fazers!

Wise Man: 29th Jan 2006 - 09:53 GMT

I'd have a comment on this, if it werent a
FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE.

The sneer on his face? Ive seen better acting
in a ED WOOD movie.

Nizzle, please.

Please please please: 29th Jan 2006 - 10:16 GMT

Someone post the guys name and address

HOPWhiteyFord: 29th Jan 2006 - 10:21 GMT

I would just like to say, both are at fault, no excuse...
both parties were in the wrong...
if you have a problem with someone littering, you don't throw the litter back at them,
you tell them to pick it up, if they refuse hold it up to them...
if they still refuse, then your not going to change thier behavior,
your just going to anger them when you throw the litter at them.
An instinctive response for when you have litter thrown at you is to throw whatever potential litter you have at hand at the person...
this is also completely unacceptable.
The keying the car afterward is a childish act that seems to be just to escalate the situation...
What do you think is going to happen when you key someone's car while they are in it? They aren't going to be pleasant...
The person in the car is going to carry it farther, because you are provoking them.
Story short... both should be arrested and put in jail for a bit.

Sniper8052: 29th Jan 2006 - 10:39 GMT

He commited ABH possibly GBH if the coffee was hot enough to scald
She commited criminal damage,
If he were to be found it would be very difficult to prosecute one without the other so it's probably better left as it is.
This is a 'square up' not a prosecution unless you were going to prosecute both parties by statute with the injured party being the City.

elaine: 29th Jan 2006 - 10:44 GMT

the 'fake' comments are so weird,
it's like some baudrillardian fantasy where people are so punch drunk with fakery they can't see the join.
for them the real is fake and the fake is real.
(and there can not possibly exist a world in which you might have a talent, work on the skills endlessly, and be able to create something good because of all the work and skill and talent)

it may make the universe implode, so hold onto your seats.

paul: 29th Jan 2006 - 10:55 GMT

the guy has no right to hit or act violently towards a woman. I would love to see this guy actaully have to fight a man. Women beware, there are crazy guys every where!

anon (CPE-58-164-86-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au.86.164.58.in-addr.arpa): 29th Jan 2006 - 11:02 GMT

Leah rocks, all the SUV heads trying to attack her are losers so they don't count for much.
The people trying to sit on the fence and say Leah did the wrong thing are are what concern me.
Get off your butts and take some action, forget about winning hearts and minds, you can see what the hearts and minds of the average SUV driver are like by reading some of the posts on this page, don't bother trying to change them. Motorists are vulnerable, with her key Leah made that guy pay a heavy price for his behaviour. We should all follow her example

anon (CPE-58-164-86-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au.86.164.58.in-addr.arpa): 29th Jan 2006 - 11:02 GMT

myself: 29th Jan 2006 - 11:37 GMT

that's the reason why i always carry a gun when biking. i glad that i live in a country where i'm allowed to defend myself when attacked.

anon (cosh-cache-1.server.ntli.net): 29th Jan 2006 - 11:56 GMT

Couldn't she have just had a go at the guy? It's not like he dumped trash *on* her.

I'm not saying he was right to litter, pour coffee on her or try and assault her...
...but it's also obvious that she made the first move against him without so much as a word by chucking the trash back in his car...
...she also keyed his car, which is criminal damage...

Therefore they're as bad as eachother. It's a no-brainer. Besides - everyone knows that SUV drivers assume they own the road and cyclists...
carve everyone up dangerously and dodge between cars. I know this as I've been both a cyclist and a motorist for some years now.

He should go down for attempted assault. She should go down for criminal damage. End of story.

pureevilmatt: 29th Jan 2006 - 12:55 GMT

don't they pay people to pick up litter? if everyone stopped littering, all those people would be out of jobs.
that's fantasy though. you'll never stop everyone from littering.
so what's the point of flipping out and throwing shit at the rare person who does litter?
your life must be pretty boring if you have to entertain yourself with such a weak cause.
sure nothing the guy did was right and in most cases, outright wrong but he was going tit for tat.
in each instance, she was the one who escalated the aggression...
litter hurts no one. throwing something at someone can hurt them. keying a car costs money.
"please don't litter in our fair city sir."- bamn, message delivered.
thus, therefore, in conclusion: both parties involved are retards.
kudos to the cops who did a good job by keeping this bullshit out of the courts.

macko: 29th Jan 2006 - 13:01 GMT

She keyed the guys' car AFTER he tossed coffee on her. You toss a cup of coffee on me from your vehicle and I'm f'n your ride up. End of story.

Anon: 29th Jan 2006 - 13:23 GMT

The Dave:

Hey fatty!

Bet you haven't seen your genitals in years!

Hope you die of heart disease lardass!

Great pictures by the way.

anon (203.13.128.101): 29th Jan 2006 - 13:46 GMT

cops "encouraged her to drop charges"
sounds like the cops were the only using their brains.
Leah initiated the aggression.
I would approve of a law that said : "penalty for throwing rubbish out of a vehicle - 12 months loss of licence" or similar.
But what she did was stupid. Wonder if she will do that again?

herb: 29th Jan 2006 - 14:29 GMT

Some of the posts above could probably fall under Canada's hate crime laws. I don't see how the images with slogans add anything to this discussion. If I were moderating I'd delete them.

dj_flx: 29th Jan 2006 - 15:32 GMT

herb - Yeah, the hell with free speech, the government should dictate what people can say.

Oh, wait, is this thing /in/ Canada? Heh.

Tim: 29th Jan 2006 - 15:40 GMT

I think we can all spot the nutbars in this thread who would also respond in a similar fashion to the idiot driver. I weep for humanity.

Dumb Bicycler's should be shot: 29th Jan 2006 - 17:11 GMT

See, Cartman's mom was right, FUCK CANADA, let's nuke it to prevent thos agressive genes from spreading over the world.

p.s. i don't litter, but if she would do that to me, the coffee would be the least of her problems, i would shove that bike up her ass.

dillo: 29th Jan 2006 - 17:15 GMT

To all the posters that think they are good with photoshop
Your maturity shows.......

Rowan James: 29th Jan 2006 - 17:35 GMT

It is quite clear that if Leah had been a big biker guy with a gun this motorist would not have flipped out. He only did that because she is smaller than him and he knew he could bully her. He knew the Toronto police do not take violence against women seriously and he would not be charged. Its typical moronic male violence against women and he should be locked up.

bruce walzer: 29th Jan 2006 - 17:48 GMT

Hmmm...

1. Guy drives around irritating people by dumping garbage on the street.

2. Someone reacts to this with a display of anger.

3. Guy outright attacks the objector.

4. Sometime during the altercation guy threatens someone with a weapon.

A person throwing litter back at a litterer is not a public danger. Someone
picking fights with strangers while showing a willingness to escalate such
a fight to the point of murder is a public danger. He has undoubtedly done this
before. He will likely do it again. The only question is "Will he get put in
prison before he kills or seriously injures someone?". I think the civic
responsibility is pretty clear here. Charges should be laid.

Dumb Bicycler's should be shot: 29th Jan 2006 - 17:52 GMT

he should have shoved that bike up her ass, who does she think she is?
Judge Dredd?

mike: 29th Jan 2006 - 17:55 GMT

leah,

my buddy designed the lake shoes(ALL of the lake shoes) you have on your feet in these photos. i talked to him and the owner of lake and they are both intersted in giving you some shoes and possibly other goodies. please contact me at: mhill@jcwhitney.com when you get a chance and i can arrange it. thanks and keep pickin up that trash!

dj_flx: 29th Jan 2006 - 18:28 GMT

About the above Lake comment...

Does this mean if I go out and start trouble with motorists and get it recorded somehow, I can get free stuff too?

(assuming the author is legit)

Dave: 29th Jan 2006 - 18:39 GMT

I realize that this is getting a bit off-topic, but here are my thoughts about female/male violence.

Physical AND emotional abuse should be avoided whenever possible
Keep in mind that your emotional abuse can lead to physical retaliation
Men are generally stronger than women and therefore better equipped to cause physical harm

Women shouldn't be led to believe that because they are female, men can't do physical harm to them.
If you are unable to defend yourself, then being involved in a fight is a big mistake.
Having said that, bullying people who are weaker than you is not cool.

johnsweden@hotmail.com: 29th Jan 2006 - 19:07 GMT

to the girl in the white vest... when you want to be with a real man, look me up..

theo: 29th Jan 2006 - 19:42 GMT

hey there leah,

If you haven't already gotten in touch with her, "the girl in the black vest" works at Ideal coffee on Nassau. I don't know her name.

xoxoxo Bruce: 29th Jan 2006 - 19:59 GMT

http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php?p=206723#post206723

Ean_Frick: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:00 GMT

Do any of you realize how much bullshit a biker constantly has to deal with?
There are way too many irresponsible assholes at the helm of a few thousand pounds of metal.
That jerk insulted everyone on that street by littering. Rock on Leah.

wondering,,,: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:00 GMT

is it possible that all the negative thread towards leah might be comming from the mashers butt-head friends??! Hmmm....

anon (CPE00904bf81fe3-CM00140454da00.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com): 29th Jan 2006 - 20:02 GMT

she's a fucking bitch... who is she to throw carbage back in the car? if he litters, tell the police to write him a ticket but don't fucking throw it back... FUCKING WHORE... i hope she pays for the scratch... too bad she didn't get what she deserved - a nice blow to the head would set her straight!!!

dismayed: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:13 GMT

to everyone who says that Leah should have "politly asked him to dispose of his litter properly"...
I am pretty sure a block head like this guy would NOT have responded any differently to a verbal reprimand from Leah and infact i a very sure that his severe over reaction to the situation was atleast partially due to some lacking in the trouser department!LOL!!

jt: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:13 GMT

kudos to the motorist. dont let some pretentious activist mess with you. these people think they are incincible. And the fact that it was a woman only makes me happier. You nailed two birds with one stone.

Leyna: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:16 GMT

I think what Leah did is admirable. I doubt it did any good for the guy that littered but maybe other
people that saw what happened will be more aware of their actions. Not to sound like a flake but this is our
environment, it's important that we take care of it, not only for ourselves but for future generations.
She said she's got a son, I think she's got a right to be pissed off. I think we all have the right to be pissed off
when someone is fucking up our environment. We may not all be responsible for it but we'll all pay for it.

I don't get how people are standing up for this guy. If you flip out that easily over cosmetic damage than your priorities are
seriously fucked and you need help. Seriously, what about when his wife pisses him off? What if he has a kid and the kid
damages something of his? He obviously doesn't have a problem attacking someone that's smaller than him.

Leyna: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:17 GMT

Leyna: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:18 GMT

Leyna: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:21 GMT

proud pretentious activist: 29th Jan 2006 - 20:27 GMT

pretentious activist eh?? I dont see a problem with being put in the same catagory as Martin Luther King, Rosa parks,Ghandi, and any other "pretentious
activists" that are fighting an ongoing battle to better the earth while so many lazy, self centered clowns are leeching all they can from society/the
earth and leaving nothing but a legacy of sloth,apathy, and fast food wrappers!
Way to go Leah!! you do what you can to stand up for what you believe in no matter what the outcome. You make the GOOD people of the world proud!
p.s. why do so many people assume she is a lesbien...are straight women not as likly to stand up to a man??

bingo: 29th Jan 2006 - 22:20 GMT

Man some of you ppl are real mature.

Posting pics of this girl you don't know and calling her a lesbian.

Classy work dickhead.

Road Raged Motorist Loses: 29th Jan 2006 - 22:51 GMT

It's great how any comments defending the jackass guy come from obvious hillbilly types and socially backward neanderthals or right thinking people satiring the ignorant apes among us. Most people KNOW the guy is wrong regardless of circumstance HAHA loser jock woman beating looser wannabes! HAHA you're the minority now Bitch!

Angel from Montgomery: 29th Jan 2006 - 23:18 GMT

Leah,

If you're still looking for the girl in the black vest, I know her. Drop me a line at angel_from_montgomery (at) hotmail.com.

twowheeledknife: 29th Jan 2006 - 23:44 GMT

Hats off Leah you rock.Toughguy.... I hope I bump into you,I'll treat you to a nice lunch..of all you can KNUCLE SANDWICHES.ps Leah i will fight you at an undisclosed location next Friday...you're skins.Seriously....there should be more people like you.Ride safe.

Jack: 30th Jan 2006 - 00:40 GMT

i cant believe so many people have enough spare time to debate this nonesense. seriously! it was road rage, and they had a fight. So what. While you're at it, how about pumping out a 10,000 word thesis on the changing patterns or modern motorists in relation to road rage, and the moral, social, & economic implications it may have on our children's children.

Jack: 30th Jan 2006 - 00:42 GMT

i cant believe so many people have enough spare time to debate this nonesense. seriously... it was road rage, and they had a fight. So what. While you're at it, how about pumping out a 10,000 word thesis on the changing patterns or modern motorists in relation to road rage, and the moral, social, & economic implications it may have on our children's children.

NR: 30th Jan 2006 - 00:58 GMT

Littering sucks, but she shouldn't have thrown litter back into his car. And he shouldn't have smashed her bike after she keyed his car. At that point, I would have tackled her REALLY HARD and held her (knee on the head) until the police arrived. Gotta go through the right channels. No doubt a stupid incident.

RedEarth: 30th Jan 2006 - 00:59 GMT

You are kidding, I hope... Do you not think that this situation is indicative of a frightening trend of suppressed rage and of the violence that seems all too prevalent in North American communities these days?
I for one am apprehensive for our future, and this incident is reason enough to be so.

hool: 30th Jan 2006 - 01:03 GMT

to h00l - obviously in this open forum, anyone can use anyone's name.

however, i have admin power here, so i will simply delete anyone attempting to speak on my behalf.

in the words of he-man: "i have the power!"

Fazed: 30th Jan 2006 - 01:07 GMT

Please note 'hool' is different from 'h00l'.

Letters not numbers.

hool: 30th Jan 2006 - 01:40 GMT

fazed: i don't make that distinction.

clearly from the content of the comment, the poster was trying to impersonate me.

Robbiee: 30th Jan 2006 - 01:54 GMT

Fuck that stupid hippy lesbo cunt. It's should be none of her business if he wants to litter. She is not the police. So if she wan't to act like a hippy cunt and thought cause she was a girl she was going to get away with throwing the garbage back into his car. SURPRISE! I am so glad he fired back at her, she initiated it. I wish he would of just got out and clocked here. He did nothing to her and once she started the shit she deserved everthing that happen to her and more. You can tell by her fucking lesbo camouflage half pants she is just one of those lesbo cuntty cunts.

Brian: 30th Jan 2006 - 01:56 GMT

Leah, you're awesome. Don't let these idiots posting pictures get you down. They're little better than the idiot that assaulted you.

steve.m: 30th Jan 2006 - 02:02 GMT

oh and Leah imo you should have pressed charges. If this guy is crazy enough to go apeshit for litter/scratch imagine what he will do with the baseball bat to someone else.

jane: 30th Jan 2006 - 02:04 GMT

anyone else think that Robbiee's mom didnt hug him enough?

twowheeledknife: 30th Jan 2006 - 02:43 GMT

I think he prolly lives in his moms basement...27 yrs old ...never had a girlfriend..very angry

not-h00l: 30th Jan 2006 - 02:59 GMT

hool: I think you should back up this story with some license plate numbers or something.
I simply don't believe it happened. I think it's a stunt to boost the site CityNoise and
I see no proof that the incident is anything other than an art school project. On the other
hand all the misogynistic, homophobic, cyclist hating scum posting to this thread are an
eye-opener. While I'm highly skeptical that this is a real incident, I fully support Leah
if it actually is. If it's not then you "hool" and "CityNoise" should be aware that you are
not just having a fun time posting fake photos: you're lying to a lot of people. If Leah
is real and really had the incident she should be pressing charges so that the alleged criminal
is put behind bars before he either hurts someone smaller than himself or is sent to hospital
by someone not as restrained as Leah.

In short, post some proof, do something about it, or else don't post stuff like this. There's
nothing to distinguish your pictures from a lie.

j: 30th Jan 2006 - 03:35 GMT

interesting that many of the folks who disagreed with what Leah did then have to call her a
number of names, threatened to beat her up, display their hatred of cyclists, basically accept
littering as a right but throwing it back in the jerk's car was down right unforgivable and
justified killing her if the time and place were right...the fellow just couldn't pull it off
on this day due to too many witnesses...I'm just amazed at the rage against this woman in so many
comments...when the rage should be directed at this jerk...

Some Guy : 30th Jan 2006 - 03:53 GMT

I wonder how many of you would be saying she was right to stand up to the guy if, instead of getting coffee dumped on her, she was laying dead in a pool of blood?

It's also pretty easy, based on one incident, to come to the conclusion that someone is an asshole. The fact is that none of you have ANY idea what is going on in that man's life. Maybe he lost his job that day or was going to the courthouse to sign divorce papers or something.

What I'm reading in these comments is a lot of self-righteous bloviating based on little more than one person's account and a few pictures.

The way I see it is they both acted stupidly. Nobody is a hero in this story.

hool: 30th Jan 2006 - 04:32 GMT

not-h00l:

as i've said, i don't care if you believe that these photos and the story are authentic. so, if i were to state a license plate number, a six character alphanumeric string, how is that going to offer any proof? do you have an insider at the ministry of transport to whom you would give the plate number, and then cross reference it with your insider at the toronto police? how would you propose to verify this event given any further details?

what exactly is it that you would need to see in the photos to boldly state for all of that you have declared this event to be authentic? it's not a moon landing. it's an angry guy making an angry face. look back through citynoise. i've been posting candid photos, usually unremarkable, sometimes remarkable, events and interactions in the streets, for years.

do you also doubt the dozens of accounts from other people who have posted comments about similar interactions they've had with motorists and cyclists? this is not an uncommon occurence. it is also not uncommon for me to be out walking the streets with a camera; i have logged hundreds upon hundreds of hours wandering toronto with camera. is it so unbelievable then that these two not uncommon events would intersect: me with a camera and a violent altercation between two people in the street ?

you can no more disprove this event than prove it through text, nor through the photographs. if nothing else, learn this: believing is seeing. we see what we want to believe.

Zorpheous: 30th Jan 2006 - 04:46 GMT

The girl on the bike is completely innocent, she was only returning the drivers property that he accidentally dropped. He should thank her for returning his property. Sorry, I don't feel one ounce of pity for the moron. He's lucky she didn't use her U-Bolt lock to crack his ape like skull open. He got what he deserved, his litter back in his car, screw him!

Screwy Stewy: 30th Jan 2006 - 04:58 GMT

You don't have to worry about nut bars like track suit man running to his trunk for a gun - the two billion dollar firearm registry prevents that sort of thing.

Omri: 30th Jan 2006 - 05:02 GMT

I wonder which (or how many) of the commenters who called Leah names are in fact the assailant. I'll also join the chorus in calling for charges to be pressed. A first offense of mischief would mean a fine and I would chip in to pay it.

As for the assailant, how the hell does a creep like this get a pretty girlfriend like that? She could get a new boyfriend by snapping her fingers, for crying out loud.

Stevo9er: 30th Jan 2006 - 05:36 GMT

Everyone here advocating violence is really lame and the OP should close or lock this thread.

Mach: 30th Jan 2006 - 05:42 GMT

Its gritty human drama at its finest. Great photos. Was a digital camera used?

Mr Special: 30th Jan 2006 - 06:24 GMT

Look, both people are obviously warped and neither should be allowed on public roads.

GermanGuy: 30th Jan 2006 - 08:23 GMT

These are great photos. As someone else already said I'd wish to be half as good as this.
As for the things happening in the pictures, no violence is justified against women unless they're trying to kill you.
But I really enjoyed these photos, since they freeze the moment so beautifully. Even without context they would still be awesome. Nice example of good photojournalism.

harmless: 31st Jan 2006 - 09:58 GMT

Why is a there a lot of "violence against women is soooo wrong!" and not a "violence against anyone is soooo wrong!" ... mm?

I'm a guy. I'm big. I don't fight people. Hasn't really come up. If it did, I'd probably be severely injured on account of not knowing the first about what to do. So I'd just as soon the jury (y'all) didn't suddenly decide it was somehow more ok for me to be attacked on account of my being male and tall :P

john lewis grant: 31st Jan 2006 - 13:17 GMT

It appears that she scraped his car by accident, during his outrageous assault on her. I don't see that Leah is could be charged with any offence. BTW, few things can be more enraging than watching PIGS unload their personal garbage onto our streets. Looks like no charges are being laid against him. That's a travesty.

Futon: 31st Jan 2006 - 14:19 GMT

Congrats on making the front page of the Toronto Star hool!

Crappy The Penguin: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:36 GMT

Hate to bring this up, but James Frey apparently witnessed the whole incident and is writing another 'memoir' about it.
He reportedly will 'recall' the events like this:

A violent serial killer in a parked van threw out a limb of his latest victim from his vehicle window.
The bicycle courier then picked up the offending litter and (in a socio-conscious fit of righteous rage) lobbed the torn appendage back into the van, whereupon she scolded the litterbug to keep his filthy (905 area code) habits out of her urban-chic backyard.
Chaos then ensued.

Well, that's James Frey's story anyway---as he remembers it.

And by the way, his latest 'memoir' will be titled. "A Million Litter Pieces" (sorry, Oprah).

Crappy The Penguin: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:36 GMT

Hate to bring this up, but James Frey apparently witnessed the whole incident and is writing another 'memoir' about it.
He reportedly will 'recall' the events like this:

Well, that's James Frey's story anyway---as he remembers it.

And by the way, his latest 'memoir' will be titled, "A Million Litter Pieces" (sorry, Oprah).

Crappy The Penguin: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:36 GMT

Hate to bring this up, but James Frey apparently witnessed the whole incident and is writing another 'memoir' about it.
He reportedly will 'recall' the events like this:

Well, that's James Frey's story anyway---as he remembers it.

And by the way, his latest 'memoir' will be titled, "A Million Litter Pieces" (sorry, Oprah).

schatbot mission: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:44 GMT

Yeah, this situation is pretty hairy. Demonstrates a lot of whats underneath the skin on Toronto's roadways. Definatly both car driver and biker are at fault on this one. The bike stomp is inexcusable, and is one step past even, despite the fact this whole affair shouldn't have started. You shouldn't litter ever, and if you're in a car you dont need to chuck things out the window. just dangerous.
Someone should look into better ways to get bikers and drivers where they're headed without this garbage. Good work for the biker on standing up to the guy.
Also, I agree with jl grant. Just cause you're a guy doesn't mean getting assulted is good.

Earl: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:46 GMT

I think its great that more people arre biking and not using cars and advocating changing our cities to be more bike friendly. i also think it great that this biker took fronted someone on rude public behavior. Unfortunately many cyclists have adopted a holier than thou smorally superior attitude that they think excuses them from doing any wrong and that makes car drivers automatically wrong. this atiude and behavior includes flagrant disregard of the rules of the road and the rights of motorists , riding outside of bike lanes , wearing dark clothing at night and being almost invisible to motorists and then acting like the rest of us should have a sixth sense about where they are. Many cyclist should learn to be a lot less arrogant and egotistical. I know this will probably get a lot of angry defensive responses but those who respond like that should look to themselves first. Keep the cycles - lose the attitude

Earl/ Chicago

ellar: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:47 GMT

I would like to commend all the passersby who stepped in during this most unfortunate altercation. There are many people in this world who wouldn't want to get involved and these good-hearted people may have stopped this incident from turning into something truly devastating. I don't think the bystanders who acted quickly have been mentioned enough in this thread.

There have been many times when I've wanted to honk the horn or say something to people who chuck things out their windows, especially cigarettes, but I have thought twice about it because I know what kind of rage exists in people and I really don't want to be beaten up or even verbally assaulted.

I believe that both people are at fault - both people acted out of anger, though clearly the litterer was the one who took it too far. Just look at that seething rage that was just waiting to surface - you can never know what lies beneath. We need to all think about how we approach situations because, in the end, nothing was really accomplished by this. It's just a shame.

Leah, I'm glad you made it out of this in one piece and, for the record, I do understand your anger at people littering in your neighbourhood.

bystander: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:52 GMT

i was there that day that it happened, but i was too afraid to help the lady so my cousin and i ran away. i did see his as he ran passed me and grabbed her tire, but i didn't really see what happened next, i only heard a few comments here and there.

matt : 31st Jan 2006 - 18:55 GMT

the girl is retarted, who would throw food at someone and then key his car. She clearly deserves what happened to her so that she will think twice before doing something so unthoughtful the next time. Toronto is the dirtiest city in Canada im sure she can think of better ways to clean it up then picking up trash and throwing it at someone.

pdfuser: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:57 GMT

I think it's interesting that street crime, or confrontation is still news in Canada.

pdfuser: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:57 GMT

I think it's interesting that street crime, or confrontation is still news in Canada.

NoahBody: 31st Jan 2006 - 18:58 GMT

Cucky, you fucking retard. Smoke your own pole, you graceless piece of shit.

Ozner: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:10 GMT

Leah, you should've gone ahead with the charges. You ACCIDENTALLY scratching his car is not even close to being a criminal offence, especially if it was in the context of him grabbing you by the helmet and trying to toss you around a bit.

JRM: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:12 GMT

I myself have wanted to kill a few bike couriers in my day as the majority of them feel they own the road because they schlep it out on them everyday which gives them the power of entitlement. The sad thing is the times that I have had a road rage with a bike courier they are sadly in the wrong. In this situation I support the Bike courier because finally someone is taking a direct stand against ASSHOLES in our city littering! Kudos to the courier, thank you on behalf of all citizens who respect the earth and it cleanliness. However,Two wrongs don't make a right. and if you are going to the extent of throwing garbage back at someones car or in someones car for that matter you have to be ready for a fight and that is what she got. As far as the motorist he should be charged with assault, littering, damage to personal property and should be charged accordingly. Final word for the motorist....you need to get laid buddy...sell your car and take the money and get into some therapy before you kill somebody. besides, the exposure on this story is unreal and you are gonna pay for this in more ways then one for some time to come. Good Luck asshole!

mc: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:13 GMT

Good for her. The guy is an ass for littering. Toronto is filthy, and it's assholes like this guy who make it worse. What he should have said is: "I'm sorry, you're right, I should throw this in the garbage instead of out my window. Thank you for giving it back to me." And drove away. Instead he throws coffee at her and trys to smash her bike. What a loser.

amanda: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:13 GMT

Some people think that couriers are a bunch of losers that can’t find a real job, use the roads without paying anything for the privilege and smoke dope to keep from thinking about how much of a useless failure they are.

Huge Euge: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:18 GMT

To all the "men" out there. This is a fine example of the new species of "young male idiot". The cyclist had no right to throw the garbage back in his vehicle. Obviously, two wrongs don't make a right! To call his unbelievable rage an overreaction would be and understatement. I could only wish, that it was a tough male cyclist who would have kicked his butt.

Attacking anybody over this incident, much less a woman is ridiculous. Get a grip! Strong people, strong men control their emotions, their emotions do not control them. That is strength personified. Pathetic weaklings, resort to this motorists behaviour.

If I were his grandmother, mother, sister, wife, girlfriend or perhaps his pathetic boyfriend, I would be tempted to kick his butt to the curb, where he belongs.

Calling all men! Check yourself, before you wreck yourself. Control those outbursts of anger and violent behaviour, especially towards women. Then maybe, just maybe we can begin to call ourselves the most intelligent species on earth.

No_Seriously: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:18 GMT

It's too bad that people just don't investigate real information rather than just assuming lots of crap that is based on speculation.
The blond in the picture is his Fiancé. What happened is that they went to the little deli in that area (sorry, I forget its name). The bought stuff. What she states actually happened is that both her and her fiancé had bags of deli items. With their hands full, apparently, one of the bags fell to the ground. They simply didn't notice it. I've done that myself. Like she stated on a CFRB interview, they wouldn't knowingly throw away good food that they just bought!

As they drove away, this idiot courier on her bike saw the bag there and (wait for it) ASS-U-ME ed that they threw it out and she started the who bullshit by opening the door of the car and throwing the bag in at them both.

The driver got pissed and was attempting to hold her there until the police arrived. After all, under the Rules, she committed an assault.

Once the police arrive and discovered what we going on, they ran the usual checks on both parties. As it turns out, this lovely "lady" courier HAS A HISTORY OF DOING THIS VERY THING!!!! and has been to court over this.

Psychotic? You be the judge! LOL :)

I'll be honest. When I first heard what had happened, without knowing the "other side of the story", I too sided with the cyclist.

But once I found out that the dropped bag was not intentional AND that she has a history with police for this very action, I realized that I too jumped too quickly to the wrong conclusion.

Cheers to all! :)

TOR: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:19 GMT

She is returning him a favour. He should be glad he got his stinking filth back. The whole point of key-scratch art on his car showed him how things such as dumping trash will do to the earth. Damages. He may see it on his car but he can't even see what it really do to the earth. (Besides it was an accident) Its ironic too. Filth like him littering on Toronto ground. An overeacting hoodlum such as him didn't even take the time to figure out the person he has his hands on was a female. For the guy physically abusing this female, get this straight, not just male can bike but also female too. Secondly, female can get pissed off in male and engage in a fist fight too. Scars will be the result but standing up for oneself is much fullfilling.

litterbugs suck: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:25 GMT

A lot of people are talking about her scratching his car. 1) This guy is a total jerk who deserved having his food thrown back at him. I say "Rock on Leah".
2) from the story in the star - "She says her bike lock key, worn on a bracelet around her wrist, scratched his car — she says unintentionally."
Besides, what kind of asshole throw's food on the street...in Kennsington. C'mon. It may not seem like the cleanest area in the city, but hey we don't really need to make it worse.
The only beneficial part of this, is now we have our posterboy for Earth Day advertisements. I see it now...an SUV with garbage being thrown out the window.

Omri: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:29 GMT

To No_seriously: yeah, right. You expect to be believed? If that was true, why did the guy threaten the photographer? Why did he go after the girl and not the bike? (If he had just held the bike, Leah would have to choose between abandoning the bike and talking to the police.) Why did he flee the police?

olgc gr 7 class: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:34 GMT

we agree with the girl but she should have just put the litter in the garbage.she invaded his privacy.the man needs help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.ju

olgc gr 7 class: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:34 GMT

we agree with the girl but she should have just put the litter in the garbage.she invaded his privacy.the man needs help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.ju

OLGC KIDZ: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:35 GMT

hey that is not cool that guy should keep his little to himself!! he he he...

Kevin G: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:35 GMT

both of them were a bit silly..the guy a total asshole though..probably beats his wife no doubt..too mnay AssClowns think having a car makes them `king`..(or `queen`` as the case may be..)

Kevin G: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:36 GMT

both of them were a bit silly..the guy a total asshole though..probably beats his wife no doubt..too mnay AssClowns think having a car makes them `king`..(or `queen`` as the case may be..)

Kevin G: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:37 GMT

both of them were a bit silly..the guy a total asshole though..probably beats his wife no doubt..too mnay AssClowns think having a car makes them `king`..(or `queen`` as the case may be..)

CC: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:38 GMT

I'm sick of people thinking the world is theirs to disrespect and destroy.Thay guy's an ass!Nature gives back what you give her. He littered she gave it right back in the form of a woman. What makes him think it's ok to litter without any repercussion. As far as I'm concerned he should have gotten a lot more than a chance to beat on someone half his size. Loser. Period.

Jay: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:39 GMT

Hey, i think there could be some truth in what no-seriously saying, based on the photos, everyone will side with the cyclist, but i am sure, anyone will get angry, if some one throws the un-intentionally dropped food, instead of just pointing them at the food. She is not the only one, who is concerned about her neighbourhood.

bagofnuts: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:40 GMT

Dotcommie: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:42 GMT

No_seriously: Assuming everything you said is true (which is doubtful, but let's assume it's all true) this guy is still a violent nutbag as is evidenced by his response. There are other ways to respond than going berserk and chasing people with baseball bats. His fiancee would have to be insane to going forward with marrying this guy. He has very obvious emotional problems that will definitely result in violent episodes in the future. Run away, cute blonde girl! RUN AWAY!

Ildiko - Toronto: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:42 GMT

The motorist was obviously embarrassed for getting caught littering - what an idiot he it. He should litter and mess up his own car not more litter on the streets - speaking of litter - he also behaaved like trash!!! PArt of me wishes that she would have hoofed him right where it counts - asshole!!!!

Ildiko - Toronto: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:42 GMT

The motorist was obviously embarrassed for getting caught littering - what an idiot he it. He should litter and mess up his own car not more litter on the streets - speaking of litter - he also behaaved like trash!!! Part of me wishes that she would have hoofed him right where it counts - asshole!!!!

Kevin G: 31st Jan 2006 - 19:43 GMT

guy looks like a russian/eastern euroepan assclown, they like to beat women & kill ppl. at random , e.g. see yugoslavia, serbs..