Grace in the City/4th July

joey: 5th Jul 2005 - 00:33 GMT

wow. i was just thinking about the grace building the other day. the white marble building with the sloping facade. thanks for posting it.

elaine: 5th Jul 2005 - 09:59 GMT

really? it was a bit random for me - jsut because it was called grace, so i knew grace would like it, you never know when you are in a foreign city if something is a landmark unless you've seen pictures of it before, so everything is up for equal grabs

elaine: 5th Jul 2005 - 14:33 GMT

www.adbusters.org/home/ - the flag source btw

jack: 5th Jul 2005 - 15:04 GMT

nice photo of grace, I remember when it was built. your x's flag is in a capitalist mood. i know 22 g i 's that died for the stars on that flag, i wonder what they would think. when you meet your next yank, he will prefer stars. be good to yourself and wait on him. he is around the block.

elaine: 5th Jul 2005 - 15:11 GMT

dulce et decorum est pro patria mori...it is a good and beautiful thing to die for one's country - www.english.emory.edu/LostPoets/Dulce.html best not to die for flags, whatever their stripe, but the impulse is pure, more often than not. i watched the film 'kidnapped' the other day, the RL Stevenson story about the highland clearances, and it made me feel uncharacteristically scottish, you never know when that mood will strike

Mr English: 5th Jul 2005 - 15:12 GMT

anticapitalist i would say. an there's nothing wrong with that jack. 1000s of young americans have died and continue to die protecting US oil interests overseas. This is a bad thing. A bad bad thing.

Jamie: 5th Jul 2005 - 15:14 GMT

don't get me started on the subject of flags

jeeff: 5th Jul 2005 - 15:28 GMT

i know a lot of americans who appreciate the adbusters flag. i hope some day we can evolve to the point where people recognize that criticizing one's country doesn't mean you hate it. but then evolution's all just a crock of shit, right?

Peter: 5th Jul 2005 - 15:29 GMT

no jack, they didnt die for the flag. i hate it when people spout oversentimental patriotic spew like that. they died protecting america's interests overseas, which nowadays, are rather commercially-based, ergo the flag pictured above. yes, they were killed so that powerful, rich white men could pursue their god-playing game of international politics and personal interests. and now that those interests have become ludicrous, laughable, futile and unpopular, us yanks look pretty stupid, internationally.

america loves exploiting stupid american's propensities towards patriotism and an undying love for god and country... and consumerism. but i think we can all agree that the state of things today goes so far beyond those sentiments that its silly to even try to express patriotism with anything but irony... especially when youre saying patently knee-jerk things like "...i know 22 gi 's that died for the stars on that flag...".

the stars are still here, and would be, regardless of the death/life of those 22 gi's...

one wonders... was it worth it for them?

elaine: 5th Jul 2005 - 15:38 GMT

i think war really blew it's cover circa WW1 for me, hence the wilfred owen link

Jack: 8th Jul 2005 - 16:10 GMT

Sorry to get you all upset about flag and politics. Whe nyou look back throughout history, soldiers and civilians died for stupid reasons... soldiers dont like war, especially politically motivated ones so they fight for their flag and countrymen back home. If they know there is a fight to help people, they go and fight. Yes there are white men and black men that play God and love their gold. It's been that way since time immortal.

I liked the picture using capitalistic logos for stars was a new idea. Perhaps I've seen too much in this world.

Gaz: 8th Jul 2005 - 16:18 GMT

>> Perhaps I've seen too much in this world

have you ever been outside of your own country? Do you have a passport?

Peter: 8th Jul 2005 - 16:18 GMT

im not upset, jack, just a bit disillusioned by both my country and my flag. i didnt mean any offense. i see now that you come from the old school, and i respect that alot... it just means that, as a younger american, i probably have a much more sarcastic and less-respectful view on our country and its leaders/politics. its sad, but true. i'm sure that had i grown up in pre-war america, i would probably share all of your same sentiments.

respect to you. i hope you visit here often. we'd love to hear stories of brooklyn form back in the day...