Victoria Park Bench

BZZZP: 21st Jun 2005 - 18:54 GMT

heh are those miklis?

also, any meaning to those x'd O symbols?

elaine: 21st Jun 2005 - 19:37 GMT

1) no, much much cheaper, but quite trendy wendy i think - diesel
2) bloody good question. not to do with the park itself i think, but something to do with london bridge, and most probably the 'city' - the original city, and now financial district. i will try a search, this must be known, though not currently by me. you got me on that one, snapping away not really looking - will report back

elaine: 21st Jun 2005 - 19:54 GMT

found it! it is hrealdic and symbolises the london borough of southwark, just across the river from the city. long way from home! I'm surprised viccy park got it... how bizarre. st george has a lovely cathedral there, in the shadow of the railways, under which is borough market - fruit and veg all week, and expensive farmers' market at weekends
www.civicheraldry.co.uk/lcc.html
'The device in the third quarter, known as the Southwark Cross, is commemorative of the martyrdom of St. George and was used as a device by the Bridge Estates Committee'

elaine: 21st Jun 2005 - 21:09 GMT

btw

BZZZP: 21st Jun 2005 - 23:08 GMT

this is what i love about symbols on old things. we here have nothing like that level of random history, or very very rarely. ... and nothing at all that could be that old.

thanks for that link... lead to some good g'ing about the crossbones graveyard in southwark.

not wearing glasses, i separate all eyewear into 3 simple categories: "plain glasses," "i think miklis," and "sunglasses" - my wife has a habit of mikli's, so it's all i know.

elaine: 21st Jun 2005 - 23:23 GMT

yeah, it makes london a really rich place to live, even in scruffy neighbourhoods. i mean

elaine: 21st Jun 2005 - 23:28 GMT

dunno if you can read that but it says; "The world's first public park
Victoria Park was London's first public (as opposed to Royal) 'park for the people'. James Pennerthorne laid out the park between 1846 and 1845. Pennerthorne was an assistant to John Nash who was chief designer and architect of the Regent's Canal. At the time it was built, there was great concern about overcrowding and industrialisation in East London and the park was seen as a 'green lung' for working people to enjoy."
which is pretty damn cool. this is the inception of the concept of leisure for the masses

Peter: 22nd Jun 2005 - 13:20 GMT

these are my favorite sorts of threads... im seeing/learning all sorts of stuff id never be exposed to otherwise, so thanks!

also: gotta second the fact that america has nothing that old to decypher symbols from, unless it was made by native americans or something. in many ways, america is very boring and culturally shallow.

Jamie: 22nd Jun 2005 - 13:38 GMT

like a giant birmingham perhaps?

elaine: 22nd Jun 2005 - 13:44 GMT

jambo, you are so cruel. they say birmingham is england's answer to venice... a'course you gotta wonder what the question was

Colin: 16th Oct 2005 - 02:53 GMT

I'm not sure that the civicheraldry.co.uk web site is correct to say that the device is known as the Southwark Cross or even that it symbolises the London Borough of Southwark, without further corroborative evidence. It *is* the case that the device, known as the Bridge House Mark, appeared on the coat of arms of the former London Borough of Southwark, granted 14 June 1902 as the web site states. However, it does not appear on the coat of arms of the present London Borough of Southwark, granted 15 August 1966 and a quick Google search - whilst not in any way being conclusive - does not offer any further evidence other than civicheraldry.co.uk which even refers to the Southwark Cross, at all in the first seventeen pages. If it was that prevalent, then it would most likely show up.

However, in this instance, the mark is clearly The Bridge Mark, which is the emblem of the Bridge House Trust, a registered charity, dating back to 1097 and named after Bridge House, from where it was once administered. The Trust web site states that the mark was most likely designed by a famous seventeenth century surveyor, William Leybourn, who used it to mark plots of land owned by the Trust, (from which the Trust derives its rental income) on maps and plans. You can also see the mark currently on the Tower Bridge plaques and flags at road level.

The Trust owns and maintains the five bridges over the River Thames in the City of London, for which it is solely responsible. In chronological order, these are: London Bridge (built), Blackfriars Bridge (built), Southwark Bridge (purchased), Tower Bridge (built) Millennium Bridge pedestrian only, ("took over ownership" 2002). The sole trustee of the charity is the Corporation of London, the local authority for the City of London. From 1995, the objects of the charity were widened to allow it to spend some of the profits on grants, currently in excess of £17 million a year, to charitable projects benefiting the inhabitants of Greater London.

Southwark, of course, is on the south bank of the River Thames, bordering the City of London.

The above paragraph taken from an article I had written for another web site. Original information sourced from:

Bridge House Trust www.bridgehousegrants.org.uk
Corporation of London www.cityoflondon.gov.uk
Charities Commission for England and Wales

elaine: 16th Oct 2005 - 08:39 GMT

thanks colin, that's really interesting - i only did the briefest of investigations, and took the civicheraldry info at face value. great to have a bit more in depth info

Colin: 16th Oct 2005 - 16:36 GMT

Yes, that is sometimes a problem with the internet, where various web sites end up quoting each other in a sort of endless cycle. By the way, took a while to download on my slow dial up connection, but I appreciated seeing your photos, as I have been to Victoria Park on a few occasions previously for the performance art installations and fireworks run as part of London International Festival of Theatre (LIFT) and never knew these benches from the old London Bridge had been placed there.

(Incidentally, I apologise for the error in my previous posting, it should be former Southwark Metropolitan Borough Council (not former LBoS) and present London Borough of Southwark.)

elaine: 16th Oct 2005 - 20:34 GMT

thanks, colin. sorry about the heavy pics, i know i do big pictures, and lots of them, and i realise that makes it hard for some people to open pages, but i am glad it was worth it. the benches are at the far north eastern corner on the eastern edge of the outer pathway. worth a visit, i think, and a handy halfway resting point if you started walking in the opposite corner. particularly beautiful at the moment and cosy to look out from

Yersinia: 26th Aug 2007 - 21:34 GMT

The symbol is very prevalent around the Blackfriars Road Area - you see it on the Blackfriars Foundry on Blackfriars Road, on various small metal wall plaques in that area, which I guess may be the parish boundary markers of St George the Martyr, on the coat of arms of the Borough Polytechnic Institute, which is now Southbank University, with a completely different logo, and on Blackfriars Bridge itself.